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Rolling Start
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"Moral/racial question about character design" , posted Sat 27 Apr 17:29post reply


I'm in the process of creating character designs for a fighting game that I plan to build for a term project, and one character in particular has got me wondering just how appropriate he is. All black readers, please respond.

Do you feel that the idea of a militant, anti-white, african-american character in a fighting game is offensive? He/she would be dressed similarly to the black militans in many Public Enemy videos, berets, camo, shirts with pro-black slogans and images.

Because I have always admired the image/ideas of black militants, despite being white myself, and I feel that they are sorely misrepresented in the media today.

What do you think? Would an angry, anti-white black militant fighter be too offensive?





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"Re(1):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 18:03post reply


quote:
I'm in the process of creating character designs for a fighting game that I plan to build for a term project, and one character in particular has got me wondering just how appropriate he is. All black readers, please respond.

Do you feel that the idea of a militant, anti-white, african-american character in a fighting game is offensive? He/she would be dressed similarly to the black militans in many Public Enemy videos, berets, camo, shirts with pro-black slogans and images.

Because I have always admired the image/ideas of black militants, despite being white myself, and I feel that they are sorely misrepresented in the media today.

What do you think? Would an angry, anti-white black militant fighter be too offensive?


Sorry, I'm not black but if I were to make a game charcter of a anti-black and call him ccc or something. Some people would get offended, some woulden't. I think it's the same for your scanerio, some people would think of it as a game, but some might take it seriously.





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"Re(2):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 18:12post reply


Hmmm, true. The anti-white part wasn't a big thing, it just would have been something for the win-quotes. His movenames wouldn't have been like I Hate Whitey or anything





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"Re(3):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 19:32post reply


quote:
Hmmm, true. The anti-white part wasn't a big thing, it just would have been something for the win-quotes. His movenames wouldn't have been like I Hate Whitey or anything


x3 "I Hate Whitey" ahaha

about your first post, I wouldn't be offended. M. Bison wants to take over the world and I'm not offended. Some character hate catterpillars and I'm not offended. So not offended by a fictional character being racist. If the game was made though, expect complaining parrents at the least.





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"Re(3):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 19:39post reply


quote:
Hmmm, true. The anti-white part wasn't a big thing, it just would have been something for the win-quotes. His movenames wouldn't have been like I Hate Whitey or anything



I would not be offended at all; but if you put that character on a very important role some people might atribue that rol to the game; like if he where a main character of the main nemesis....

But in any circunstace; I believe that there is no such a big deal about it.





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"Re(4):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 19:51:post reply


There have been characters like that in movies recently, and if they are in movies, they must be okay! Right?

Seriously, you don't need to go very far in real life to find people like that. Sometimes I think they are more common than white racists. The only difference is, the black racists don't make the news.





[this message was edited by pointystick on Sat 27 Apr 19:55]

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"Re(4):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 19:57post reply


Indeed. Somebody will be offended no matter what you do. It's best not to fight it.





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"Re(5):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sat 27 Apr 21:05post reply


LOL you should add some moves like "I Hate Whitey"!
maybe give him an uppercut called "Cracker Cutter" or something. it'd be hillarious!

hehe maybe not everyone would share my sick sense of humor. ok i'll be quiet

oh wait. here's a suggestion about his quotes, among other things.. how about when he defeats a white guy in combat, he just says something really harsh? like "that's what happens. you deserved it" or "weakling" or maybe just silence "....." like .. have his quotes reveal nothing that'll lead the player to believe that he's racist. the only way they'll know is if they read his storyline somewhere. i dunno. just a suggestion it's how i'd do an anti-white character





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"Say it loud..." , posted Sat 27 Apr 21:26:post reply


quote:
I'm in the process of creating character designs for a fighting game that I plan to build for a term project, and one character in particular has got me wondering just how appropriate he is. All black readers, please respond.

Do you feel that the idea of a militant, anti-white, african-american character in a fighting game is offensive? He/she would be dressed similarly to the black militans in many Public Enemy videos, berets, camo, shirts with pro-black slogans and images.

Because I have always admired the image/ideas of black militants, despite being white myself, and I feel that they are sorely misrepresented in the media today.

What do you think? Would an angry, anti-white black militant fighter be too offensive?



I'm black. Let's go shall we?

The major advantage/problem comes from how you portray this guy. If he just a pointless racist? If so, he's gonna seriously offend some people, both white and black. If he has a reason such as the game taking place in the 60s with racial turmoil all around or perhaps something done to him previously, such as KKK assaulting his family that causes him to go into a revenge mode, seriously adds to his design and lessens the ammount of offense people will take from it. Move names and execution are important. In keeping the character but reducing the complaints it would be best to have pro-black names than anti-white.

[edit]

After you finish your project, would you mind if I looked at your source code?





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[this message was edited by ZamIAm on Sat 27 Apr 21:29]

BlackNinjaVinny
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"Re(1):Say it loud..." , posted Sun 28 Apr 00:38post reply


And please make hsi fighting style something besides boxing :) To many of those types out there already.





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"stereotypes" , posted Sun 28 Apr 03:17post reply


honestly too many black fighting game characters fall into stereotypes already - why just use another stereotype (the black panther, white hating stereotype)?

i would personally prefer to see some cool ass black guy who used some ancient chinese kung fu like tang di chuan (no one is going to know what that is LOL). or some drunken fist black guy. no more boxing types is definitely a step in the right direction. how bout a black guy speed character? you almost never see any of them (almost always power characters) although some of the fastest people in the world are black.

and no more afro sporting platform wearing pimps please. it was funny the first time. but now i just kind of find them offensive (even though im not black).





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"Re(1):stereotypes" , posted Sun 28 Apr 09:48post reply


quote:
honestly too many black fighting game characters fall into stereotypes already - why just use another stereotype (the black panther, white hating stereotype)?

i would personally prefer to see some cool ass black guy who used some ancient chinese kung fu like tang di chuan (no one is going to know what that is LOL). or some drunken fist black guy. no more boxing types is definitely a step in the right direction. how bout a black guy speed character? you almost never see any of them (almost always power characters) although some of the fastest people in the world are black.

and no more afro sporting platform wearing pimps please. it was funny the first time. but now i just kind of find them offensive (even though im not black).


Hey im black too! I think there should be a character that doesnt have any kind of stereotype behind it like a black boy was kidnapped from his family, and was trained to become a ninja, something that i havent seen done in a game. Im getting tired of all the black boxers and kickboxers, with the afros and and all that stuff. They should use something original.





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"Re(2):stereotypes" , posted Sun 28 Apr 12:57:post reply


It would be cool to see a black guy (or anyone, really) with a style close to Psyloke's in the Vs. games, minus the psyblade stuff. Really, really fast with lots of jukes (especially that rolling heavy low kick), and maybe some Blue Mary-like long range grapples thrown in for fun. Not many guys end up getting styles like that Honestly, developing fighting game characters sounds like a lot of fun, especially for a martial arts junkie like me, I should try it sometime.





[this message was edited by pointystick on Sun 28 Apr 12:59]

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"Re(1):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sun 28 Apr 14:22post reply


quote:
What do you think? Would an angry, anti-white black militant fighter be too offensive?



I don't know about this.... It could be okay, but I think real life political problems don't have anything to do inside a game. And hate-based character especially.
For example, characters like Blue Mary or May Lee, who are fashion-hating characters with ugly clothes, are very offending to french people... OK, bad example.
I'm gay, and I think I would find very offensive an anti gay fighter... (Except Takuma, of course.)





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"Re(2):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sun 28 Apr 21:10post reply


quote:
What do you think? Would an angry, anti-white black militant fighter be too offensive?


I don't know about this.... It could be okay, but I think real life political problems don't have anything to do inside a game. And hate-based character especially.
For example, characters like Blue Mary or May Lee, who are fashion-hating characters with ugly clothes, are very offending to french people... OK, bad example.
I'm gay, and I think I would find very offensive an anti gay fighter... (Except Takuma, of course.)



odd, this past week I've seen two people dissin' on Mary, and I've never seen that before, it's starting to bug me now....





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"Militant Sucka" , posted Sun 28 Apr 21:11post reply


quote:
and maybe some Blue Mary-like long range grapples thrown in for fun. Not many guys end up getting styles like that.



A Black Panther type guy would actually make the most sense playing like Blue Mary or Kevin Rian since their self defense training is army based. Once again, pointless racist=bad. Guy with a vendetta=better. Considering you said that this was a (college?) project, you should really take your time with this because you could run into confrontation with the teacher.





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"Re(1):Militant Sucka" , posted Sun 28 Apr 21:48post reply


quote:
and maybe some Blue Mary-like long range grapples thrown in for fun. Not many guys end up getting styles like that.


A Black Panther type guy would actually make the most sense playing like Blue Mary or Kevin Rian since their self defense training is army based. Once again, pointless racist=bad. Guy with a vendetta=better. Considering you said that this was a (college?) project, you should really take your time with this because you could run into confrontation with the teacher.



Zam, I just noticed your tag, I must be in denial then....I don't agree...





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"Re(1):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Sun 28 Apr 23:35post reply


quote:
I'm in the process of creating character designs for a fighting game that I plan to build for a term project, and one character in particular has got me wondering just how appropriate he is. All black readers, please respond.

Do you feel that the idea of a militant, anti-white, african-american character in a fighting game is offensive? He/she would be dressed similarly to the black militans in many Public Enemy videos, berets, camo, shirts with pro-black slogans and images.

Because I have always admired the image/ideas of black militants, despite being white myself, and I feel that they are sorely misrepresented in the media today.

What do you think? Would an angry, anti-white black militant fighter be too offensive?



You know what would be revolutionary? A black character that looks like an ordinary urban black male. Seriously with a short fade and wearing hip hopish clothing. Could just make him a down and dirty street fighter type. Strangely enuff, there are no regular black folk portrayed in games really, I guess, the game designers don't know what regular black folk look like?

And what's with the trend of black girls and white hair lately in these games?





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"Re(2):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Mon 29 Apr 02:20post reply


quote:
You know what would be revolutionary? A black character that looks like an ordinary urban black male.


There is Seth, maybe...
And not a monster like Boman of Justice Gakuen... he is the most ugly character I've ever seen.... do the people at Capcom never saw a blakc man before??





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"Re(3):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Mon 29 Apr 14:30post reply


quote:
There is Seth, maybe...
And not a monster like Boman of Justice Gakuen... he is the most ugly character I've ever seen.... do the people at Capcom never saw a blakc man before??



They've obviously seen Mike Tyson!

Actually, Dudley is pretty non-stereotypical besides being a boxer. But boxing is the only Martial Art that has any real origins in England, so when you get down to it, it makes sense.

Oh, and let me point out that I am indeed black.

Zamuel pointed out exactly what I was thinking. Make sure that there is a GOOD reason for him being the way that he is. And know that no matter how much you try to avoid it, someone somewhere is going to be offended.

Oh, and about the ideas for the names of moves, like "Cracker Cutter"...no offense to JJJ....but NO!!! Don't even think of doing that.





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"Re(4):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Tue 30 Apr 13:39post reply


There are literally no black people in Japan. So when they want inspiration, they go to the next best thing - American movies. And I guess you all know how the generic non-black made movie portrays black people...





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"Re(5):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Tue 30 Apr 13:48:post reply


I have always lauded the KoF series for putting at least some of its characters in normal looking street clothing (Terry, Kyo, Kensou, May Lee), but they haven't done that yet for the black folks that pop up in games from time to time. Lucky's get-up is kind of close, but the colors are too bright, and the shorts don't go with the styles I see on blacks around here. But again, they only have movies to work with.

Dudley is an interesting one. I'm guessing he's supposed to be a member of a high falutin' British family, but do black families like that exist in Britain? I'm guessing not...





[this message was edited by pointystick on Tue 30 Apr 13:52]

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"Re(6):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Tue 30 Apr 14:12post reply


Terry's clothing would be normal back in the 80's.

quote:
I have always lauded the KoF series for putting at least some of its characters in normal looking street clothing (Terry, Kyo, Kensou, May Lee), but they haven't done that yet for the black folks that pop up in games from time to time. Lucky's get-up is kind of close, but the colors are too bright, and the shorts don't go with the styles I see on blacks around here. But again, they only have movies to work with.

Dudley is an interesting one. I'm guessing he's supposed to be a member of a high falutin' British family, but do black families like that exist in Britain? I'm guessing not...







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pointystick
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"Re(7):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Tue 30 Apr 15:37post reply


quote:
Terry's clothing would be normal back in the 80's.



At least his clothing was normal sometime in history (and lots of peole dress like they're still stuck in the 80's anyway), unlike, say, Chun-Li or Dhalsm. Their clothing is just...wacky.





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"Re(8):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Tue 30 Apr 15:38post reply


Actually, i take it back, Terry could be a truck driver!

quote:
Terry's clothing would be normal back in the 80's.


At least his clothing was normal sometime in history (and lots of peole dress like they're still stuck in the 80's anyway), unlike, say, Chun-Li or Dhalsm. Their clothing is just...wacky.







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Juke Joint Jezebel
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"Power of the Cons" , posted Tue 30 Apr 15:58post reply


quote:
Terry's clothing would be normal back in the 80's.

I have always lauded the KoF series for putting at least some of its characters in normal looking street clothing (Terry, Kyo, Kensou, May Lee), but they haven't done that yet for the black folks that pop up in games from time to time. Lucky's get-up is kind of close, but the colors are too bright, and the shorts don't go with the styles I see on blacks around here. But again, they only have movies to work with.

Dudley is an interesting one. I'm guessing he's supposed to be a member of a high falutin' British family, but do black families like that exist in Britain? I'm guessing not...




i like Terry's and Kyo's clothing. i attempt dress similarly when i go out. hell, i even have the cons! well, they're not red or anything, but i think they're still pretty sweet

http://www.converse.com/shop/images/1h731.jpg
i hope that link works

ehehehe, i always point at them and tell my opponent "it's gotta be the shoes" when i beat them with Terry. well, maybe i'm still living in the 80s -_-

haha, speaking of Tyson, my friend JUST pointed this out to us the other day -- M. Tyson ..... M. Bison
probably why they renamed Bison to Balrog when Street Fighter came to America
ah clever Capcom! original

and Iron D, hehe, no offense taken





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"Re(1):Power of the Cons" , posted Tue 30 Apr 16:10post reply


quote:
"Actually, i take it back, Terry could be a truck driver!
"


LOL!!!! in CvS2, i choose orange Terry (MK in the arcade, O on the ps2, B on the DC) and we call him "Home Depot truck driver Terry"

haha we spent weeks laughing over that





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"Scary Man+Boman" , posted Tue 30 Apr 16:43post reply


quote:
Zamuel pointed out exactly what I was thinking.


Alright, it was cool at first but now this is getting eerie.

---------------------------------------

Boman's appearance is a bit sucky but is persoanlity is excellent. He regrets his size because he is non violent at heart and knows he could easily hurt people without trying. Even prays for forgiveness after a fight.

-----------------------------------------

Where'd Rolling Start disappear to, anyway?





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"Re(8):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Tue 30 Apr 17:54post reply


quote:
At least his clothing was normal sometime in history (and lots of peole dress like they're still stuck in the 80's anyway), unlike, say, Chun-Li or Dhalsm. Their clothing is just...wacky.



Well, no offense man, but videogames are meant to be FANTASY!
There's nothing wrong with colorful costumes...





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"Re(9):Moral/racial question about character d" , posted Wed 1 May 10:29post reply


Again, all interesting points. I'm thinking about maybe making him less of a militant (even though i still think that the design is both not a stereotype and damn cool looking) and more of a simple black activist who's out to investigate reports of slavery perpetrated by the tourny organizer. Maybe make one of his costumes the militant one or something. I've really taken a liking to the idea though, he may even be the main character, due to me not having one yet...





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UnCauzi
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"Re(10):Moral/racial question about character " , posted Wed 1 May 13:20post reply


quote:
Again, all interesting points. I'm thinking about maybe making him less of a militant (even though i still think that the design is both not a stereotype and damn cool looking) and more of a simple black activist who's out to investigate reports of slavery perpetrated by the tourny organizer. Maybe make one of his costumes the militant one or something. I've really taken a liking to the idea though, he may even be the main character, due to me not having one yet...



Actually you've motivated me to create a demo of a game I'll call "Race War 2010" of course it will be completely unmarketable, but maybe I'll distribute it on the net, somehow.

Characters:
KKK Grand Dragon
Nazi

Nation of Islam Bow Tier
Black Militant

Azn Restaurant Owner
Azn Mother

2 East Indian Extremist types one male and the other female complete with veils etc.

2 American indian characters, one with bow and arrow and the other with smith and wesson.

2 Latino characters. One will be a poor latino fob from latin america and the others intro will be a phat ride boppin hip hoppy type of music.

Mutt
and The Man!

Mutt will be an interracial character with a combination of the special abilities of the others. The Man, will be a masked character that spouts rhetoric of controlling the world by keeping all people in conflict with each other. All of his special moves will all be named after excuses people use for racial intolerance. He will also have supers that call out random disgruntled people to fight you while he heals. His Mega super, he'll inhale then lean forward and start spouting racial slurs at the character he's fighting! The man will be the most dificult boss in fighting game history!

Total of 12 playable characters! I'm still torn whether I should make it FPS or a fighter. FPS would be easier to distribute on the net. But I'm a big fan of fighters.
I'm serious. I'm going to make this.





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"Re(2):Re(10):Moral/racial question about char" , posted Wed 1 May 14:40post reply


On the topic of how characters dress, I like the way the Street Fighters are dressed. Putting characters in "normal" clothing just takes so much less effort. And I like to see characters in a work of fiction wear things that you wouldn't normally see everyday. I mean, if you wanted to see that, why not just take a scroll in the park?

I'd also like to say that rather than get pissed off, I'm going to just not give the post above this any acknowledgement besides this. That is just SICK.





UnCauzi
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"Re(3):Re(10):Moral/racial question about char" , posted Wed 1 May 20:55post reply


quote:
On the topic of how characters dress, I like the way the Street Fighters are dressed. Putting characters in "normal" clothing just takes so much less effort. And I like to see characters in a work of fiction wear things that you wouldn't normally see everyday. I mean, if you wanted to see that, why not just take a scroll in the park?

I'd also like to say that rather than get pissed off, I'm going to just not give the post above this any acknowledgement besides this. That is just SICK.



Yes, but it will be hella popular if I put it out in some free format on the net. Like an FPS mod or shock wave deal. Hmm what would be interesting is seeing the amount of Grand dragon players versus say the faraquan or azn restaurant owner players.

I'm still trying to determine whether "The Man" or Mutt playable through a secret code. I think they could break the game if I make them the way I want to.

I have found my calling! I will post pics of character sketches for the ideas shortly. The Man so far is wicked ;) Though I'm kind of partial to the grand dragon and mutt design. The Azn restaurant owner will be a challenge though. I'm thinking of making the black militant blade esk.





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"Re(4):Re(10):Moral/racial question about char" , posted Wed 1 May 23:03post reply


I guess it depends. Not a lot of folks will be upset with this character unless the character is white. I think society is wacked for this since in the movie Star Wars EpI, everyone hated Jar Jar for thinking he protrays blacks while not a lot of ppl care for Rune Hako or Newt Gunray who protrays chinese ppl.





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"Re(5):Re(10):Moral/racial question about char" , posted Thu 2 May 06:14post reply


quote:
I guess it depends. Not a lot of folks will be upset with this character unless the character is white. I think society is wacked for this since in the movie Star Wars EpI, everyone hated Jar Jar for thinking he protrays blacks while not a lot of ppl care for Rune Hako or Newt Gunray who protrays chinese ppl.



I thought people hated jar jar because he acted stupid, and would have fitted in great with the likes of bugs bunny rather than say Darth Maul.

I think people don't care for Rune Hako or Newt Gunray because they don't have a clue who they are. So with this style of thinking does the flying bug guy who sells parts represent jews?