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| Juan 1745th Post
 
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
 
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(2):Re(10):Explain"
, posted Tue 23 Apr 22:47
You wanted to be a programmer right? Wait until you actually start working on that field, "data teft" will not look very nice.
Haha humanity...
quote:
People put a lot of their time in to these things. It's their job. They expect to make money. We're in an " information age " . What, do you want everyone to go back to a manufacturing economy, or something?
When did I suggest giving that data away? I am merely saying that the word "stealing" isn't appropriate at this time. Boy howdy, everyone is putting words in my mouth like there's no tomorrow.
I'm thinking now is the time to
a) say how I was sitting here waiting to see how long it would take for someone to accuse me of being a dirty, dirty pirate,
b) say that I own over $1000 in Neo Geo stuff, just not in MVS equipment or software, and
c) drop the argument, since it isn't going anywhere.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/carniceria
"I can destroy TV shows!"-Plastilina Mosh.
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| Cherrn
21th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):A word of advice" , posted Wed 24 Apr 06:37:
I don't wanna get into a flamewar here, but this is my opinion.
Simply 'cause I haven't got the money for an MVS or AES and games, should I be robbed of the joy of playing KoF? Is that fair?
And no, I can't go the arcades, 'cause the fact is that we don't have where I live, only slotmachines.
Heck, I wouldn't even know about KoF if it weren't for emulation.
And that's SNKs fault. If they had marketed their stuff better and made it more price accessible, more people'd play KoF, it's as simple as that.
Which is why I think they should pull a Sega, forget the Neo-Geo and start developing only for other consoles, like PS2 or GameCube. And when they do that, emulation won't be possible (at least for a couple of years), AND their games will be cheaper = sell more.
They're shooting themselves in the foot here.
And for the record, I have bought countless of *affordable* KoF items, like the NGPC, tons of posters, comics and the two KOF games for the DC (and I will buy 2k).
That's acceptable to me, but if I *had* to pay at least $100 for a KoF game I'd say no... it's not worth that much. And that's why I think SNK deserves whatever financial troubles that are coming to them.
"If you're killed you've lost a very important part of your life".
-Brooke Shields during interview.
[this message was edited by Cherrn on Wed 24 Apr 06:41] |
| RugalBernstein 1676th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Anybody who actually wants to buy an MVS..." , posted Wed 24 Apr 08:34:
Developing only for consoles would be foolish on SNK/Playmore's part, because they are a major arcade company in Asia. You seem to not realize their games are fairly popular in that part of the world.
And for people who always argue that MVS carts are too expensive, they apparently haven't looked at the actual prices. New games are expensive, sure, but older games seriously drop in price, especially if the game comes out for home cart. If anybody is actually interested in MVS, but doesn't want a cabinet, check this out. Link Here
You'd need an MVS board, as well, but they aren't too expensive. You can find one slots for prices around 50 to 70 U.S. dollars, sometimes. Just keep an eye open.
[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Wed 24 Apr 09:07] |
| Professor 1484th Post
MMCafe Owner
     
| "Re(2):A word of advice" , posted Wed 24 Apr 08:34
quote:
I don't wanna get into a flamewar here, but this is my opinion.
Simply 'cause I haven't got the money for an MVS or AES and games, should I be robbed of the joy of playing KoF? Is that fair?
And no, I can't go the arcades, 'cause the fact is that we don't have where I live, only slotmachines.
Heck, I wouldn't even know about KoF if it weren't for emulation.
And that's SNKs fault. If they had marketed their stuff better and made it more price accessible, more people'd play KoF, it's as simple as that.
Sorry, but let me just go by your logic for a short moment here. I was a bit puzzled at what you meant, since I've been a collector of the KOF series since its second title, though I haven't ever owned either the AES nor MVS.
SNK has been making fine effort in porting their major titles to home consoles, even though most people don't seem to realize it.
As for the KOF, all of its series has been released at an "affordable price" for consoles as you mention, ever since KOF95'. This would mean that- by your logic, you have not been "robbed" of your joy from playing the games, and only KOF94' would be the exception for emulation.
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| Tio
80th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(4):A word of advice" , posted Wed 24 Apr 08:40
quote:
Bah, it's like talking to a brick-wall... screw this.
Not really.
a brick wall won't point out the fact that you're justifying violating law, and rules of consumer market.
I'm no saint, I'll fully admit to playing emulated games and obtaining illegal Roms. Not a common practice, but I have done so a few times in the past.
The diffrence here? I know it's wrong, and I admit it. I don't justify it, telling myself "it's ok to steal! it's THEIR fault!".
I usually get the consumer version of the game when it becomes available, and at that time ditch the Rom. But even that action is only "softening my own guilt", and not justified act. It's still wrong, you know.
Now to go download some mp3s... (j/k) :)
Tio
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Guild H/H on Asuka server
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| Juan 1747th Post
Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member
| "Re(4):A word of advice" , posted Wed 24 Apr 08:54
The main problem is that they seriously need to take a break from 2d, or take longer to develop the games (2-3 years.) I like KOF a lot, but its really hard to come up with something innovative when they force you to churn out a game every year.
quote:
Developing only for consoles would be foolish on SNK/Playmore's part, because they are a major arcade company in Asia. You seem to not realize their games are fairly popular in that part of the world.
Hrmm. 2D fighting games in general are not doing very well in arcades in Japan. Even Capcom is withdrawing from the arcade scene. 2D fighting game, much to my dismay, is "thing of the past" in Japanese arcades.
The whole Neogeo/Playmore thing is surprising actually, considering how poor the genre is doing in arcades. But I'm sure they have other asian markets in mind also (Taiwan and South Korea comes to mind)
Japanese arcades consistently change to fit the current user needs, but US arcades seems to be slow in adjusting. Arcades in US are closing down quickly. I hope they adjust to the user demands faster, so they don't go extinct. There are few sucessful ones, but very few in numbers compared to the ones going out of business.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/carniceria
"I can destroy TV shows!"-Plastilina Mosh.
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| Cherrn
23th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):port" , posted Wed 24 Apr 09:14:
I never said emulation was justifiable or right. What I'm trying to say is that it's SNKs own damn fault if they went bankrupt. They have to realize that there isn't enough money in only satisfying the hardcore gamers.
And about the PSX ports. Aside from '95, the rest are Japanese... and you might have an import store or some shit, but I don't. And I can't read Japanese, btw. And Japanese ports don't matter, 'cause I never would've heard of KoF if it weren't for emulation. KoF '95 for the PSX wasn't released in Denmark. And at the time, I couldn't have bought them online, as I didn't have internet until '98.
I'm European, and SNK might've made an effort in the US, but certainly not in Europe. However, I speak only for my own country, which has never seen the shadow of an SNK game.
"If you're killed you've lost a very important part of your life".
-Brooke Shields during interview.
[this message was edited by Cherrn on Wed 24 Apr 09:17] |
| Cherrn
23th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):port" , posted Wed 24 Apr 09:37
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to find lots of arcades in larger countries like England, Spain and such, but in Denmark, there are virtually no arcades. And if there are, it's all about Tekken, Virtua Fighter and misc. light-gun games. No 2D.
I mean, like I said earlier, I don't get out of my city much, so the chance of me finding an arcade is small. And if I do find one, I won't even be sure it has an SNK game, y'know?
I think SNK should stick with arcades. I see nothing wrong with making arcade games. But, I do think they should dump the home Neo-Geo. At least, I didn't think 2001 should have been released on home hardware. It must've cost them to publish it for the home hardware, and they could've saved those money if they went straight to the triad of home consoles, ... DC, GCN or PS2. (no Xbox)
The reason why I think they should throw out Neo-Geo hardware is because it's too easy to emulate. Everyone and his granma are learning dumping these days and if SNK had used some other kind of hardware like NAOMI, 2001 and future games wouldn't/won't be dumped. And that'll be profitable.
Emulation won't stop until they switch boards and that's a fact. So they're screwed unless they switch it.
"If you're killed you've lost a very important part of your life".
-Brooke Shields during interview.
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| NeoFreak
50th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(2):Yeah, ok" , posted Wed 24 Apr 09:41
quote:
I never said emulation was justifiable or right. What I'm trying to say is that it's SNKs own damn fault if they went bankrupt. They have to realize that there isn't enough money in only satisfying the hardcore gamers.
And about the PSX ports. Aside from '95, the rest are Japanese... and you might have an import store or some shit, but I don't. And I can't read Japanese, btw. And Japanese ports don't matter, 'cause I never would've heard of KoF if it weren't for emulation. KoF '95 for the PSX wasn't released in Denmark. And at the time, I couldn't have bought them online, as I didn't have internet until '98.
I'm European, and SNK might've made an effort in the US, but certainly not in Europe. However, I speak only for my own country, which has never seen the shadow of an SNK game.
I understand that SNK may not have had done much with console ports in Europe, but they did make the effort in the AES department. Dowloading roms of games you dont own is cheating others for your own personal gain. Your previous comments show that you could care less about SNK..."SNK deserves to go bankrupt when they have prices like that.","Screw them!" KOF as with any other game is the product of hard work, people who are trying to make a living. YOU are stealing from them. If you cant respect that, you dont deserve to even SPEAK the word SNK. It's rom kiddies like you that ruin it for the TRUE fans.
www.neo-freak.com
"The Neo-Geo is the system number one without doubts and now more than ever the Neo-Geo System attacks again." -Evoga
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| Battenosuke
12th Post
New Customer
| "Re(1):Price of MVS/AES = RIDICULOUS!" , posted Wed 24 Apr 11:34
I hate to jump into a fist fight, but to simply look at KoF 2001 (the finished version, not some run around bootleg over the internet) and simply say it was "the hard work of the SNK staff" is laughable, same with Metal Slug 4 and currently, Rage of the Dragons.
It took SNK a few odd years to come up with a winning formula and their idea of hard work has left them back with games that revert to an age of disrespect for it's former glory. The NeoGeo Homecart system was rediculously expensive, for a console which wasn't really powerful. It was expensive when it was still being produced, and now it's expensive being vintage. The dreamcast served as a perfect tool for console ports of naomi board games and at an affordable price (ironically they fell to nearly the same fate as NeoGeo, because they had plenty of fighting games, lotsa action games, FPSes, online services but NO decent RPGs at the level they are today). Yes, I own a NeoGeo, and being canadian, you can damn well imagine how buying a system in canadian dollars like that actually costs.
Just because the odd person (or the collective of fans), save their money to buy a cart every four months, doesn't make them l33t. It's not like NeoGeo games are being released like ten titles a month, that's plenty of time for someone to save up cash to buy a cart, or a system for that matter. Until someone can prove to me that SNK died due to emulation, then I'll agree to it, and please, the price is rediculous, despite fandom and "decent paychecks", unless you like collecting antiques....Here, I got a jaguar for sale..
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| Battenosuke
13th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):Price of MVS/AES = RIDICULOUS!" , posted Wed 24 Apr 11:52
quote:
No RPGS destroyed the dreamcast? That has to be the richest thing i heard in the whole day. Go get some more accurate info and modify your message.
Well, I guess that's why I used brackets. Some people usually use brackets to note a sense of opinion. Did you just skim the entire message and come up to that conclusion? Despite this accuracy you speak of, working in retail, I've heard customers blatantly boycott games and systems simply because a certain "game" won't be released on it, or it doesn't have any promise. People don't buy systems for systems, they buy them to play games. I state this in my opinion, and I have a question to ask you..."Do you think the Dreamcast would have died, despite financial difficulties if it had done as well as the PSX? It's legion of fans? It's -exclusives-?"
Here's some education:
Retailers sell console systems and they sell games, they get a profit, some money is sent to their distributor. If the systems or games aren't sold, they're returned to their distrubtor and written off as unsold, returned tompany distributor..etc.etc.etc.
Some stores actually -are- the distributors and end up keeping these games and selling them out till they're out of stock, desperate to actually make money from the games they purchased from the companies. Now do you think the store essentially cares about the death of a company? Only if they're trying to return games/consoles that weren't sold and are forced to sell at stock price to make back lost money.
It's my opinion, because I've seen it happen first hand. Thx.
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| Juan 1754th Post
Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive
| "moo." , posted Wed 24 Apr 11:57
I dont know man, this cake still tastes like sugarcoated missinformation/opinion. But hey, some people still think Santa is real :)
quote:
No RPGS destroyed the dreamcast? That has to be the richest thing i heard in the whole day. Go get some more accurate info and modify your message.
Well, I guess that's why I used brackets. Some people usually use brackets to note a sense of opinion. Did you just skim the entire message and come up to that conclusion? Despite this accuracy you speak of, working in retail, I've heard customers blatantly boycott games and systems simply because a certain "game" won't be released on it, or it doesn't have any promise. People don't buy systems for systems, they buy them to play games. I state this in my opinion, and I have a question to ask you..."Do you think the Dreamcast would have died, despite financial difficulties if it had done as well as the PSX? It's legion of fans? It's -exclusives-?"
Here's some education:
Retailers sell console systems and they sell games, they get a profit, some money is sent to their distributor. If the systems or games aren't sold, they're returned to their distrubtor and written off as unsold, returned tompany distributor..etc.etc.etc.
Some stores actually -are- the distributors and end up keeping these games and selling them out till they're out of stock, desperate to actually make money from the games they purchased from the companies. Now do you think the store essentially cares about the death of a company? Only if they're trying to return games/consoles that weren't sold and are forced to sell at stock price to make back lost money.
It's my opinion, because I've seen it happen first hand. Thx.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/carniceria
"I can destroy TV shows!"-Plastilina Mosh.
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| pointystick 520th Post
New Red Carpet Member
| "Re(4):DC fall" , posted Wed 24 Apr 12:21
Just to jump back in for a moment, I want to say that high prices are what create black markets (or piracy, in this case). They are linked and inseperable. It is something that everyone who markets something that many people want and yet few can afford has to deal with, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Also, in mature economies, black markets serve as the carrot to firms to lower prices, to try and capture the part of the consumer's willingness to buy that having prices too high excludes. To me, ethics really doesn't enter into it. The black market isn't good or bad, it simply exists, as part of the market system.
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| Maverick
9th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):Price of MVS/AES = RIDICULOUS!" , posted Wed 24 Apr 13:28
A ROMs debate... hmm...
Well first off, I'd like to express the point that ROMs suck. Not their concept but the actual gameplay. They don't look as good and even my pretty decent computer can't play them very well. Computer controls for fighting games (fighting games being the main topic at hand here) are also terrible. Those negative effects are enough for me to want to buy the real thing whenever available, but not enough to shell out the serious money needed to invest in Neo Geo carts and such.
On a different note, months ago I downloaded a sort of emulator for the popular Bemani game, Beatmania IIDX. It showed me just how much I needed that game and I imported a Japanese PS2, all 3 IIDX games and a controller. I think ROMs are only healthy when they're used like a rental or trial.
I think ROMs should have a sort of expiration date like a lot of shareware does, where it becomes unfunctional after a few weeks. That way, they really would be just like trial games.
I occasionally play ROM'ed SNK games, but I'm not satisfied with them at all. I'm more than willing to buy many of the games, especially KOF, once they become available on other systems.
Kick me I'm new.
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"Re(6):port" 
