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Shyeim
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"KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 06:34post reply


I heard that many people don't like KOF 2k1
because of artwork&gameplay.

Most people know that 2k1 was released very lately in NOVEMBER, so the staff want to finsh this game before 2002. Mine Arcade had in 2002(january). I really think that KOF 2k1 was more a preparation for KOF 2k2.

Have to say the backgrounddesign was really bad!!!!

Lets hope that KOF 2k2 goes old school.

3 vs 3 with great gameplay&nice graphics!!!!






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talbaineric
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"Re(1):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 06:47post reply


Oh,geez,tell me about it. The backgrounds were ugly. Choppy and awful colors,too distracting. Hurt my eyes.

I just hope 2k2 outshines and reclaims the KOF glory it once had,now lost since 2k.





Freeter
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"KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 07:58post reply


quote:

I just hope 2k2 outshines and reclaims the KOF glory it once had,now lost since 2k.



Igniz had an EASY infinite. Just HOW could Eolith let that slip by?

And the only way KOF can reclaim glory is by reviving the dream match concept that worked so beautifully in 98, which is still the best KOF installment, bar none.





RugalBernstein
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"Re(1):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 12:08:post reply


That's really a matter of opinion. I feel a storyline adds a bit to a game. And as I always say, KOF'98 didn't need to be a dream match; the writers were just too lazy to make a quickie knock-off story for it... " In the year 1998, it seemed like there would be a normal KOF tournament for once! But... ( Underwater scene of the Black Noah... red lights flash on ) " See? I made a crappy little opening for it in the 10 seconds I used to type this thing. ^_^

Update:Oh, they let it slip by because he's the boss, and you aren't supposed to be able to use him ( barring messing with the dip settings, of course ) Speaking of which, does anybody know the dip settings for using Original Zero and Ignis? ^_^





[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Mon 15 Apr 12:22]

Juan
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"........" , posted Mon 15 Apr 12:12:post reply


The mark of my dignity shall negate all your opinions AND scar thy DNA!

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[this message was edited by Juan on Mon 15 Apr 12:19]

RugalBernstein
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"Re(1):........" , posted Mon 15 Apr 12:19post reply


Eh? Who? What? Where?





Freeter
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"Re(2):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 12:24post reply


quote:

Update:Oh, they let it slip by because he's the boss, and you aren't supposed to be able to use him ( barring messing with the dip settings, of course )



But when the CPU actually uses the infinite on you, that's REAL carelessness on the developers' part.





VariantX
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"Re(3):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 12:49post reply


quote:

Update:Oh, they let it slip by because he's the boss, and you aren't supposed to be able to use him ( barring messing with the dip settings, of course )


But when the CPU actually uses the infinite on you, that's REAL carelessness on the developers' part.



No one should have infinites.. not even the bosses.... especially with the ridiculously powerful attacks that igniz has that have huge invincibility windows. The only attack that seems stuffable is his 75% damage sdm... THANK GOD





ChunliFan
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"Re(4):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 13:07post reply


I actually love this game cause the new characters are different and very fun to use. Especially MeiLi. This game is also very fun to play with a friend. Im not a big fan of 98 like everyone is. Maybe its because I got into Kof around 99, but 98 is great too.





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Juan
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"Re(5):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 13:11:post reply


This weekend i had some very good matches with a regular player on kof 2k1, he tried using new characters (like the complete nest team) and used non infinite combos. This game is fun if you dont play against tournament-minded people that will just rudely join your game without asking, kick your ass with infinites/bugs/traps, and get you out of the machine (very common on street fighter 3.)

quote:
I actually love this game cause the new characters are different and very fun to use. Especially MeiLi. This game is also very fun to play with a friend. Im not a big fan of 98 like everyone is. Maybe its because I got into Kof around 99, but 98 is great too.







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[this message was edited by Juan on Mon 15 Apr 13:12]

Dragon-warrior
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"Re(6):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 13:23post reply


2K1 is an "OK" game, much better than 2K
the charactars are not so balance , and the game have some annoying things!!!!!
1- YURI VOICE ahhhhhhhhhhhhh it kills me , so loud.(remember Athena in 98! yuri is worst)
2- the art is so awful *yet not for all the charactars*.
3-Haidren (check the spelling -_- ) have been changed I hate that , I mean his special moves changed from a charged into a hadoken shoryuken!





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"Re(7):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 13:27post reply


96/98, greatest ever made





Capcom is a glorious and respectable company and rolento is the greatest charachter ever created also van damn played guile to a tee :)
*please dont kill me*

Hungrywolf
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"Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 13:45post reply


I liked 99 the best (haven't played 2000 or 2001, but I bet I'd like 2000 best since Mary is on the FF team). And the artwork in 2001 was not bad, like everyone says. I liked the majority of it, except Bao because they made his hat too big, and the Athena pic could've been better, even with the new outfit...other than that, I think I pretty much liked all the other artwork.





Dragon-warrior
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"Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 14:00post reply


quote:
96/98, greatest ever made


hell yeah!





Rid Hershel
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"Re(9):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 15:01post reply


quote:
I liked 99 the best (haven't played 2000 or 2001, but I bet I'd like 2000 best since Mary is on the FF team). And the artwork in 2001 was not bad, like everyone says. I liked the majority of it, except Bao because they made his hat too big, and the Athena pic could've been better, even with the new outfit...other than that, I think I pretty much liked all the other artwork.

I found the artwork well done, and funny. Most people are just obsessed with commercial manga style, I think that they did a great job in the game.

The game looks rushed, yeah, but I won't think that the backgrounds were rushed, a good artist can create some awesome ones in a couple of nights... they just picked the wrong designers (and obsessed with girls in bikini, it sems). The voices and the retouches to older characters are rushed, that's true, and sad...

Still, other areas aren't rushed, more specifically the new characters, I really liked all of them. But the old ones are outdated, they should readraw them... (Mai is too pixel-heavy).

And about Igniz, they just wanted to make a senseless cheap character.... it didn't worked.





Shin ATproof
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 15:13post reply


1)I too hate the backgrounds
2)I can't hear the music since my speakers are dead
3)I liked KoF2K's striker system...nearly everyone coule be ultra uber cheap...besides I don't like 2K1's Kyo as much as I do 2K Kyo.
4)KoF2K1 reminds me too much of the ratio system...that's somewhat of a good/bad thing if you as me
5)This KoF's gameplay and graphics were definitely unpolished/rushed. Maybe Eolith will get it right in the next game.
6)For the most part I hate the artwork but Mai, Angel and Vanessa look really good to me but freak'n Yuri, Kyo, Daimon, Ralf, Xiangfei, King....ALL LOOK TERRIBLE! FIRE THE ARTIST! KILL HIM!
7)I...HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE that uber cheap bastard Igniz! If Original Zero wasn't enough...this guy has infinite super that kill you in a near instant!

Igniz:Look at my flashing pillar of cheese that does 75-85%! Look at my whip juggle infinite! YAY! Look at my invinciblity frame ridden SDM that never ends until you die and then I can STILL juggle you...WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Damn it Damn it DAMN IT!DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!





Satoshi Miwa
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 15:46post reply


quote:
I found the artwork well done, and funny. Most people are just obsessed with commercial manga style, I think that they did a great job in the game.



For me, I can not, and will not, forgive the artist for making that awful, awful, Yuri Victory screen Art. It's just so bloody ugly that it makes me not want to use Yuri again...

Other than that I'm mixed on the visuals of the game. The new characters sprite look nice for the MVS, and it's nice to be back to a brighter style of backgrounds than the drab KOF 99/2k ones. On the down side the old KOF sprites aren't aging gracefully, especially Iori.

The bakcgrounds are also very, very plain. And repitive, as well. It's nice to have one or two crowd watching scenes in a fight game, but when they're all like that...

Igniz is way too cheap for his own good. Having an Infinite just makes him way to powerfull, and a full super meter all the time is just annoying. Take the Infinite out, and give him a super bar that conforms to the rules of the game, and I'd be happy...





Dragon-warrior
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 15:56:post reply


quote:
they just picked the wrong designers (and obsessed with girls in bikini, it sems).

yeah I remember when I first saw the Girls in the bikini , I laughed to death!
they ROCK, they remind me of the NES or the game boy color charactars.
I still remember she had only 3 Frames LOOOOOL.





[this message was edited by Dragon-warrior on Mon 15 Apr 15:58]

Luisinan
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"Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 16:26post reply


I've only seen the game, so I can' t comment on the gameplay, but yeah, the game does seem rushed. But it also looks like they put a lot of effort into it.

And actually, the only thing that I found rushed was the character select screen. Now that's a very plain character select screen. I liked 99 and 2K's select screen.

I really liked the artwork and the backgrounds. Some of the background characters were not detailed enough, but that doesn't bother me. If you add to much detail, it actually looks bad. I especially liked the Mexico stage! Ha, to have a mariachi is enough for me! And yes, I know previous KOF games had Mexico stages, and I think one of them even had a mariachi- but seeing a mariachi in a modern fighting game is just too cool.

Anyway, I think Eolith did not disgrace the KOF heritage. They know KOF has a ton of fans. But yeah, this does feel a bit rushed. I have a feeling 2K2 is where KOF will be rejuvinated. This was just to tie us over.

Now where is my SF4? Huh Capcom! I thought you said 2D will never die! Hurry up!





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"Garbage" , posted Mon 15 Apr 17:21post reply


quote:
The mark of my dignity shall negate all your opinions AND scar thy DNA!

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The game is OK...

They changed the game all what they could (accept it; there are 0% o chances for a major overall) and tough the game has several faults there it where some promishing





Freeter
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"Re(3):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 17:28post reply


quote:
I've only seen the game, so I can' t comment on the gameplay, but yeah, the game does seem rushed. But it also looks like they put a lot of effort into it.



Looks can be very deceiving. KOF EX looked decent, and we all know how that turned out...





Freeter
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"Re(1):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 17:30post reply


quote:
Lets hope that KOF 2k2 goes old school.



By "old school" you better not mean pre-98...





RugalBernstein
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"Re(2):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 18:08post reply


This game gets very mixed reactions. Sometimes I hear a lot of good things; other times, a lot of bad... My cart has finally arrived, but it's at the post office, and I haven't had time to pick it up. Regardless, I should be able to play it fairly soon.





Freeter
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"Re(3):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 19:26post reply


quote:
This game gets very mixed reactions. Sometimes I hear a lot of good things; other times, a lot of bad... My cart has finally arrived, but it's at the post office, and I haven't had time to pick it up. Regardless, I should be able to play it fairly soon.



The game definitely shines in some parts, but at the same time, doesn't in others. I'm sure you'll enjoy the new additions.

And knowing how big a Hinako fan you are, I'll admit this: her new intro is CUTE.





RugalBernstein
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"Re(4):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 19:30:post reply


Cool. ^_^ As a note, I'm very interested in hearing about Ignis's special moves... and does he have three supers, or just the two? Oh, and as for Original Zero, I heard a long time ago he has a fireball deflector. Is this true?

Damn.. another stupid typo.





[this message was edited by RugalBernstein on Mon 15 Apr 20:14]

Satoshi Miwa
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"Re(5):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 19:36post reply


Ignis has three supers, One that's a short Range Chi attack that hits everywhere (Above, below, and in the middle, so it has to be turtle blocked). His blue Chi wave attack, and the instant kill throw attack. I'm also wondering if he has a super for his wire move too (I could be very wrong about that, though...:)

Orginal Zero does have a fireball reflect move, IIRC. I think Igniz has one as well...





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"Re(3):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 19:48post reply


quote:
This game gets very mixed reactions. Sometimes I hear a lot of good things; other times, a lot of bad... My cart has finally arrived, but it's at the post office, and I haven't had time to pick it up. Regardless, I should be able to play it fairly soon.



All in all I find it to be a very good game. It's not the same KoF that we know, and I think it's a good thing. The system is a bit harder, the characters are starting to take more skill to use <with a few exceptions> and the designs are neat.

Even though it's not my favorite KoF in terms of actual gameplay, it's fast becoming my favorite in terms of style. The moves are great and the hits are satisfying. The art is new and refreshing, and even if I dislike some of it, I'd rather have new change and innovation.

I'm really liking what I see from KoF. It's more of a testing grounds for new things and systems that are then refined in othergames. RotD seems to have displayed this in it's design.
And besides. We couldn't have had a great KoF98 without the broken KoF96. Even if this isn't the game where they got it "right" eventually we'll get to see one that is.

--Suichi





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"Re(6):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 19:49post reply


quote:
Ignis has three supers, One that's a short Range Chi attack that hits everywhere (Above, below, and in the middle, so it has to be turtle blocked). His blue Chi wave attack, and the instant kill throw attack. I'm also wondering if he has a super for his wire move too (I could be very wrong about that, though...:)

Orginal Zero does have a fireball reflect move, IIRC. I think Igniz has one as well...



can't you counter the throw SDM? i'm sure i saw someone do it...





Freeter
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"Re(7):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 20:16post reply


quote:
can't you counter the throw SDM? i'm sure i saw someone do it...



Counter, no. Semi-snuff, yes.





ChunliFan
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"Re(8):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 20:36post reply


Ignis is a cheap bastard, but other than that I love this game. Ive had the most fun out of this kof than any of the others. I like the new characters and the overall roster. I really dont know what the big deal is. The backgrounds are mediocre true, music is also mediocre as well, but i enjoy the gameplay (even though I here there are some infinities and stuff, but all games have their perks). Is there anyone here that feels the way i do about this game?





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Juan
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"Re(9):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 20:44:post reply


Me.

I liked the music ok, but they should have hired a real dj to mix some of the old kof themes. And i didnt mind the stages, it actually has more of a tournament feeling than fighting on a dumpster or the sewers.

As for the girls on bikinis, ever watched a boxing match? they have plenty of those sometimes, but if they wanted girls they should have done like in 97, different girls according to the country holding a sign with the round number.

quote:
Is there anyone here that feels the way i do about this game?







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[this message was edited by Juan on Mon 15 Apr 20:47]

BlackNinjaVinny
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 22:06post reply


Ugh. I hated King of Fighters 98. Dreammatch my ass. More like 97 with the American team and Rugal.
SO, it's a Dreammatch. That means everyone dreams about seeing the American team return? Sorry, but I dream more of the Boss Team returning and Eiji. I can't beleive they got left out. That's why KoF 96 and 95 are my favorite. KoF 98 ranks pretty low on my list.
Anyways, KoF 2k1 was pretty bad. Definetly not up to the standards that KoF 2000 was.





Gojira
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"Re(1):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 23:55post reply


Gameplay-wise, 2k1 is good fun. Presentation-wise, it's not so good. Yes Character select is boring. Most of the backgrounds are just convoluted messes, unlike the clearly presented BGs that KoF used to have. Ignis' is especially hideous... aside from the statue I can't tell what the hell that crud is supposed to be. The music is okay, but nowhere near as good as KoF2k or before. The sprites are inconsistent, some are cool but a lot look like they didn't have enough room on the MVS hardware to do all the animations they needed. The only exception, K9999, looks great but he doesn't have a whole lot of moves. As for the artwork and portraits, it's not a question of quality but taste so I'll leave it alone. I do recognize the artist's style though; I think it's the guy that did the win portraits in Real Bout 2...





Shyeim
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"K49?" , posted Tue 16 Apr 04:29post reply


I miss KOF 97 stages...
The best backgrounddesign ever.

Does anyone like brutal K9999, after playing him????

Chikara ga.. katte ni... uwaaaaaa!





trufenix
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"Re(3):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Tue 16 Apr 06:45post reply


quote:

But when the CPU actually uses the infinite on you, that's REAL carelessness on the developers' part.



I would just like to note that Igniz was DESIGNED to use the infinite. Just as cheaply as O-Z is DESIGNED to use the Long/Ron striker into DM cheesiness, just the same as O-Rugal '98 is designed to Genocide Cutter everything in sight.

This is the way cheap bosses are designed, not a slip, or carelessness, or a flaw. By nature a game's final boss is supposed to present a challenge none of the other enemies can match. Thus, I think it's perfectly fair that Igniz has an infinite, an easy infinite in fact, that one of his AI patterns is designed specifically to use.

Besideswhich, I doubt you're actually paying to play KoF2k1, so whats the big wh00p in hitting the "coin" key 2 more times, and then pressing start?

Break a spine,
-F...





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Freeter
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"Re(4):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Tue 16 Apr 07:44post reply


quote:
I would just like to note that Igniz was DESIGNED to use the infinite. Just as cheaply as O-Z is DESIGNED to use the Long/Ron striker into DM cheesiness, just the same as O-Rugal '98 is designed to Genocide Cutter everything in sight.

This is the way cheap bosses are designed, not a slip, or carelessness, or a flaw. By nature a game's final boss is supposed to present a challenge none of the other enemies can match. Thus, I think it's perfectly fair that Igniz has an infinite, an easy infinite in fact, that one of his AI patterns is designed specifically to use.


"Designed to use an infinite"...uh huh. That REALLY makes sense.

Bosses are supposed to be challenging, of course, but giving them a free infinite in which you have NO hope of recovering from is just WRONG, no matter how you try to justify it.

quote:
Besideswhich, I doubt you're actually paying to play KoF2k1, so whats the big wh00p in hitting the "coin" key 2 more times, and then pressing start?


Who needs the coin key when I have a trainer for infinite health





dorikyasu
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"Re(5):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Tue 16 Apr 08:34post reply


quote:
"Designed to use an infinite"...uh huh. That REALLY makes sense.

Bosses are supposed to be challenging, of course, but giving them a free infinite in which you have NO hope of recovering from is just WRONG, no matter how you try to justify it.


Not to mention that it's a cheap way to design a "challenging boss"...
Giving the boss character something like infinite super moves to increase the "challenge" level instead of giving that character somewhat decent A.I. pattern to act upon definitely counts as being cheap (& rushed) in my book.





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"What I think of KoF 2001..." , posted Tue 16 Apr 14:32post reply


I gave a review on this game. It's ho hum. Nothing special. Too bad the flaws outweigh the good jives.





Time Mage
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"Re(1):What I think of KoF 2001..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 02:52post reply


For me, KOF2001 is a good KOF. In fact, in this moment is right behind KOF98 in my likes list, and going up. To judge the game fully, I'll need more time. In a year I think I'll be able to judge it properly. But for now, is nş 2 KOF in my list. The only think I don't like is the art design. The music is only blah, and the backgrounds boring. But gameplay-wise (and that's the more important thing) it's very, very good.

About Ignis, it's good that he's soooo cheap, because it seems that SNK can't program a decent final boss AI. Look at capcom, for example. Gill is cheap as hell, but he has also very good AI. The way he corners you and start a high-low barrage of attacks is very good.





Shin ATproof
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"Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 05:18post reply


Gill's AI is pretty stupid...he rushes too much...all of his attacks except Seraphim Wing are parry bait...on top of that nearly every character in the game has a move that you can do over and over again and at least 80% of the time hit him.

Krizalid, 94 Rugal, Sega Saturn 95 Omega Rugal, Goenitz...these are Boss AI's that are better than Gills butt they at least are beatable by normal means...Ignis is almost made up of entirely invincibility frames...had infinite juggles, infinite supers, great stamina and strength...he is so "perfect" it's a flaw in the gameplay...he is TOO good because the programmers forgot something called BALANCE!





NeoFreak
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"Re(1):yup" , posted Wed 17 Apr 05:44post reply


quote:
Gill's AI is pretty stupid...he rushes too much...all of his attacks except Seraphim Wing are parry bait...on top of that nearly every character in the game has a move that you can do over and over again and at least 80% of the time hit him.

Krizalid, 94 Rugal, Sega Saturn 95 Omega Rugal, Goenitz...these are Boss AI's that are better than Gills butt they at least are beatable by normal means...Ignis is almost made up of entirely invincibility frames...had infinite juggles, infinite supers, great stamina and strength...he is so "perfect" it's a flaw in the gameplay...he is TOO good because the programmers forgot something called BALANCE!



94 Rugal, now your talking :)





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"Re(1):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 05:52post reply


quote:
Gill's AI is pretty stupid...he rushes too much...all of his attacks except Seraphim Wing are parry bait...on top of that nearly every character in the game has a move that you can do over and over again and at least 80% of the time hit him.

Krizalid, 94 Rugal, Sega Saturn 95 Omega Rugal, Goenitz...these are Boss AI's that are better than Gills butt they at least are beatable by normal means...Ignis is almost made up of entirely invincibility frames...had infinite juggles, infinite supers, great stamina and strength...he is so "perfect" it's a flaw in the gameplay...he is TOO good because the programmers forgot something called BALANCE!



Since when a boss has to be balanced? :)





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"Re(6):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 09:32post reply


quote:
"Designed to use an infinite"...uh huh. That REALLY makes sense.

Bosses are supposed to be challenging, of course, but giving them a free infinite in which you have NO hope of recovering from is just WRONG, no matter how you try to justify it.

Not to mention that it's a cheap way to design a "challenging boss"...
Giving the boss character something like infinite super moves to increase the "challenge" level instead of giving that character somewhat decent A.I. pattern to act upon definitely counts as being cheap (& rushed) in my book.



Oh okay, so giving a boss an infinite is the devil, but giving him unlimited supers, and an unblockable striker isn't? Geez, you're pathetic.

I never said it was supposed to be fair, or justified, I just said that it's the way Eolith made their boss. I don't immediately dismiss things as some campy mistaken glitch just because I can't believe someone did it on purpose.

Eolith specifically gave Igniz's uppercut juggling capability, and then specifically told him that if he catches you point blank with it, to do it over and over again until you die. If they hadn't, and it was just an AI hole, he would do that standing whip uppercut as an anti air from time to time, which he doesn't he does the other anti-air thing.

Like K' says, "if you can't win, buzz off". Going into semantics over which cheap boss move is cheaper than this other cheap move is sad.

Break a spine,
-F...





Can you bear to my fatal attack?

Freeter
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"Re(7):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:04post reply


quote:
Oh okay, so giving a boss an infinite is the devil, but giving him unlimited supers, and an unblockable striker isn't? Geez, you're pathetic.


Did I ever state that those things were okay? Nope. I only stated that bosses are supposed to be challenging, not cheesetastic like Rugal 94 or Bison from SFA3.

And the "pathetic" remark was uncalled for. Don't try starting any flame wars up in here.

quote:
I never said it was supposed to be fair, or justified, I just said that it's the way Eolith made their boss. I don't immediately dismiss things as some campy mistaken glitch just because I can't believe someone did it on purpose.

Eolith specifically gave Igniz's uppercut juggling capability, and then specifically told him that if he catches you point blank with it, to do it over and over again until you die. If they hadn't, and it was just an AI hole, he would do that standing whip uppercut as an anti air from time to time, which he doesn't he does the other anti-air thing.


It is an AI hole, because sometimes he'll actually stop the move and let you hit the ground.

quote:
Like K' says, "if you can't win, buzz off". Going into semantics over which cheap boss move is cheaper than this other cheap move is sad.



A boss with a free infinite that can easily kill your chances of winning is even sadder.





Professor
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"Re(7):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:10post reply


quote:
Oh okay, so giving a boss an infinite is the devil, but giving him unlimited supers, and an unblockable striker isn't? Geez, you're pathetic.

I never said it was supposed to be fair, or justified, I just said that it's the way Eolith made their boss. I don't immediately dismiss things as some campy mistaken glitch just because I can't believe someone did it on purpose.

Eolith specifically gave Igniz's uppercut juggling capability, and then specifically told him that if he catches you point blank with it, to do it over and over again until you die. If they hadn't, and it was just an AI hole, he would do that standing whip uppercut as an anti air from time to time, which he doesn't he does the other anti-air thing.

Like K' says, "if you can't win, buzz off". Going into semantics over which cheap boss move is cheaper than this other cheap move is sad.

Break a spine,
-F...




First off, let's drop this subject before it goes into a flame again. We've seen enough of it last week. I'm scanning through threads a bit more this week just to make sure things are ok.


Btw, this is a warning for everyone-

1- Don't "attack" someone's opinion. Arguing about the legitimacy of their opinion is fine, but there's a right way, and a wrong way of doing it. Let's try not to piss each other out, and go into a war.

2- Don't make personal attacks to people. That's pretty low.



It's pretty weird, everyone seems to have become aggressive since we hit April. Is this some kind of a male hormone outbreak month? Please control yourselves. Have less raw oysters, cut back on the Viagra, do whatever is needed. Thanks.





Freeter
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"Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:20post reply


quote:
It's pretty weird, everyone seems to have become aggressive since we hit April. Is this some kind of a male hormone outbreak month?



You'd think with the revival of SNK that started this very month people would be more on the up-and-up...where this negativity is comin from is beyond me.





trufenix
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"Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:21post reply


quote:
Did I ever state that those things were okay? Nope. I only stated that bosses are supposed to be challenging, not cheesetastic like Rugal 94 or Bison from SFA3.


Considering you stated Igniz's infinite was "just WRONG" and everything else you mention is just "cheap", I'd say so.

quote:

And the "pathetic" remark was uncalled for. Don't try starting any flame wars up in here.


You're right, I quote games a bit more than is healthy. My apologies.

quote:

It is an AI hole, because sometimes he'll actually stop the move and let you hit the ground.


Then I tend to believe him letting you go, is the glitch, rather than him not letting you go, or maybe even a legitimate part of his AI to punish you for getting to close to beating him (IE, Pyron in DS 1). Either way, the fact that his whip upper thing juggles indefinately is not a glitch. It's what they wanted it to do.

quote:

A boss with a free infinite that can easily kill your chances of winning is even sadder.



You said it again! C'mon! How is Igniz's infinite uppercut any cheaper / sadder / whatever, than a boss that can kill you in one hit, or has an unblockable DM?

Break a spine,
-F...





Can you bear to my fatal attack?

trufenix
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"Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:28post reply


quote:
First off, let's drop this subject before it goes into a flame again. We've seen enough of it last week. I'm scanning through threads a bit more this week just to make sure things are ok.



Alright, alright, alright, I'm sorry, it just irks me when I've shelled out cold hard cash for something that I'm almost totally satisfied with, and someone whose playing it on an emulator for nothin disses it.

One more thing and then I'll be good, Freeter, you say more people should be happier with SNK's revival, but how can we be happy if guys like me pay money for brand new neo games, and guys like you play them on emulators for free? You don't even have to answer, just think about it.

Okay, I'm done.

Break a spine,
-F...





Can you bear to my fatal attack?

Freeter
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"Re(9):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:29post reply


quote:
You said it again! C'mon! How is Igniz's infinite uppercut any cheaper / sadder / whatever, than a boss that can kill you in one hit, or has an unblockable DM?



Most one-hit kills from bosses can be anticipated and blocked.

And if timed right you can actually hit Long away and block or avoid him before O. Zero does his super.

What makes Igniz's infinite so terrible is that it's devised of just one move being done over and over again until you're dead. With the other cheap bosses you have some form of retaliation. With Igniz's infinite, you can't do squat.





Freeter
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"Re(9):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:35post reply


quote:
One more thing and then I'll be good, Freeter, you say more people should be happier with SNK's revival, but how can we be happy if guys like me pay money for brand new neo games, and guys like you play them on emulators for free? You don't even have to answer, just think about it.



This is somethin I see a lot of. So let me fill you in on why I'm playin 2K1 on an emulator:

1) My local arcades don't give a damn about Neo Geo anymore

2) Neo systems aren't available in any stores

3) The carts are pricey

It's not like I want to intentionally hold up my middle finger at SNK because I'm playin 2K1 via the ROM, I just wanted to try it and see if it was good enough to purchase when it hits PS2 later.

I'm definitely pickin up KOF2K when it hits DC though.





trufenix
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:37post reply


quote:
Most one-hit kills from bosses can be anticipated and blocked.

And if timed right you can actually hit Long away and block or avoid him before O. Zero does his super.

What makes Igniz's infinite so terrible is that it's devised of just one move being done over and over again until you're dead. With the other cheap bosses you have some form of retaliation. With Igniz's infinite, you can't do squat.



Uhm, if Igniz's infinite was that terrible, no one would ever beat him. But there's plenty of protection, just stay away from him. And even he catches you, he just might drop you after 2 or 3, like you said. Don't tell me that even though it's easy to see coming, you've never been hit by a Long -> Gravity DM, or a Psycho Driver in mid jump. Once you learn what not to do, Igniz never catches you with it. Now that lame unpunishable uppercut of his, that's an SoB right there.

See, I'm being good Professor.
*bats eyes and expects to be patted on head*

Break a spine,
-F...





Can you bear to my fatal attack?

Freeter
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"Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:42post reply


quote:

Uhm, if Igniz's infinite was that terrible, no one would ever beat him.


No, but they'd waste a lot of quarters

quote:
Don't tell me that even though it's easy to see coming, you've never been hit by a Long -> Gravity DM, or a Psycho Driver in mid jump.


I have. Like I said, it can be anticipated. Doesn't mean you're 100% safe though.

quote:
Once you learn what not to do, Igniz never catches you with it. Now that lame unpunishable uppercut of his, that's an SoB right there.


Or his flashy nearly instant kill SDM.

quote:
See, I'm being good Professor.
*bats eyes and expects to be patted on head*



You want some cookies and milk too?





trufenix
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:48post reply


quote:
It's not like I want to intentionally hold up my middle finger at SNK because I'm playin 2K1 via the ROM, I just wanted to try it and see if it was good enough to purchase when it hits PS2 later.



This is the same thing everyone (well, everyone with a shred of decency and an IQ above that of a raisin) replies. And while I can see the point, the fact is, on a system that's not emulated, or for anything else in a business market (food, clothing, cars, whatever), if you don't have the money, or the availability, you just don't get it, period.

Why is the Neo any different? Should we abuse it, just because it's there, and everyone else is already doing it? There are a lot of other factors in it's demise, but emulation and piracy did nothing to the help the continued survival of the neo, no matter how little or how much you did it, no matter how you justify it.

But alas, this is not a point that goes over well on message boards, especially gaming message boards. I'm done.

Break a spine,
-F...





Can you bear to my fatal attack?

Professor
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"Re(9):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:48post reply


Erm....


Trufenix-
Again, let's let this subject go. Please.



Freeter-
True that. Maybe the adrenalin rush is doing it to everyone.

Btw I know you mean well, but your statement of opinion can be a bit strong at times. I'll leave it up to you, but can you try to be a little bit softer at times?





Shin ATproof
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"Re(2):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:50post reply


quote:

Since when a boss has to be balanced? :)



Hell...even Guilty Gear's Justice had his limits...

A boss should not be able to infintie juggle you with one special attakc. A boss should not have so many invincibility frames. A boss should not have infinite supers stock to do such a thing.

I am all for High Damage High Defense and uber powerful moves with a good AI...but I find some of the things with Ignis to be...unbalanced...I'm playing him on Default/MVS mode...I can't imagine how bad he is in the higher difficulties.





Jazzie D
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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:50post reply


quote:

1) My local arcades don't give a damn about Neo Geo anymore.



Thank goodness for Sunnyvale Golfland.





trufenix
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"Re(3):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:57post reply


quote:

Hell...even Guilty Gear's Justice had his limits...


Justice had limits? Whoo wee, that was a cheap boss. Once he got a tension bar, the battle was over:

Justice Beam:
Hit = Does almost full strength damage, and you get up dizzy.
Block = Does half strength chip damage, and gives him enough tension to do another.
Miss = He has no recovery on the thing, so he can still get you or do his autoguard thing.

Gah! Flashbacks! Give me Dizzy anyday!

Break a spine,
-F...





Can you bear to my fatal attack?

Shin ATproof
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"Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:57post reply


quote:

1) My local arcades don't give a damn about Neo Geo anymore.


Thank goodness for Sunnyvale Golfland.



W3RD!!!





dorikyasu
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"Re(3):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:02post reply


quote:

A boss should not be able to infintie juggle you with one special attakc. A boss should not have so many invincibility frames. A boss should not have infinite supers stock to do such a thing.

I am all for High Damage High Defense and uber powerful moves with a good AI...


My point exactly.
Those traits should be considered as mandatory requirement when designing a boss character.





Juan
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"Re(4):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:09post reply


Dramatic battle with two shin vegas with infinite super stock. Thats a good boss right there.

quote:

A boss should not be able to infintie juggle you with one special attakc. A boss should not have so many invincibility frames. A boss should not have infinite supers stock to do such a thing.

I am all for High Damage High Defense and uber powerful moves with a good AI...

My point exactly.
Those traits should be considered as mandatory requirement when designing a boss character.







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Time Mage
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"Re(5):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:15post reply


quote:
Dramatic battle with two shin vegas with infinite super stock. Thats a good boss right there.



Hell yeah!! cheap as hell, but fun (when you beat them, that is).





Professor
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"Re(6):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:23post reply


quote:
Dramatic battle with two shin vegas with infinite super stock. Thats a good boss right there.


Hell yeah!! cheap as hell, but fun (when you beat them, that is).



Anyone remember Zeus in the World Heroes series? One punch, and it was over.





Shin ATproof
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"Re(7):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:26post reply


quote:

Anyone remember Zeus in the World Heroes series? One punch, and it was over.



...don't remind me...I HATED the World Heroe's bosses...but not nearly as much as I hate Ignis.





Burning Kyo
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"Re(8):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:31post reply


IMO, the cheapest boss is Magneto in X Men : COTA !
It was the worst bastard, I've ever seen.






Time Mage
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"Re(8):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:37post reply


quote:

Anyone remember Zeus in the World Heroes series? One punch, and it was over.


...don't remind me...I HATED the World Heroe's bosses...but not nearly as much as I hate Ignis.



OK, OK, I admit it. I also think that Ignis is too powerful. If he hadn't the infinite he would be a little easier, but the worst part is maybe the infinite super bar. I have quite good succes jumping at him with a early pressed Goro's CD, but when he does the energy columns super, ah, that's an antiair I can't stand.

Anyway, one good advice to fight him is early superjump CD from max distance. He ates the attack about 60-70% of the times, and retaliates only 10-20% of the time. Makes him more beatable.





VariantX
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"Re(9):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 12:07post reply


quote:

Anyone remember Zeus in the World Heroes series? One punch, and it was over.


...don't remind me...I HATED the World Heroe's bosses...but not nearly as much as I hate Ignis.


OK, OK, I admit it. I also think that Ignis is too powerful. If he hadn't the infinite he would be a little easier, but the worst part is maybe the infinite super bar. I have quite good succes jumping at him with a early pressed Goro's CD, but when he does the energy columns super, ah, that's an antiair I can't stand.

Anyway, one good advice to fight him is early superjump CD from max distance. He ates the attack about 60-70% of the times, and retaliates only 10-20% of the time. Makes him more beatable.



Igniz just has too many invincibility frames.. especially the magnetic shock wave super... u could walk up and smack him silly for about as long as hes invincible with that move.... I dont care abut the SDM cuz it can be stuffed unlike the dm's which are even worse... i dont mind him using it after a juggle.. I do mind the infinite..... and to say justice was more fair is soo not true. Hes equal or worse than igniz.. Its sort of not funny when he uses his instant kill within 4 seconds of the round. And that really was all he needed.... u could dance circles around the gigacheeze laser and juggle him into hell.. and the other laser wasnt much of a problem though there was no way around it but to block and give him more energy. But what justice didnt have was massive invincibility windows that were just cheap plus EASY infinites which are a no no in ANY kof game.





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"Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 12:15post reply


quote:
Freeter-
True that. Maybe the adrenalin rush is doing it to everyone.

Btw I know you mean well, but your statement of opinion can be a bit strong at times. I'll leave it up to you, but can you try to be a little bit softer at times?



I try to be as civilized as possible when I post. Flame wars are pointless and lead nowhere. Exchanging differences of opinion is fine with me, but when personal insults get involved, I let it go.

If my opinions are coming off as strong, then I apologize. I just normally tend to speak what's on my mind.





RugalBernstein
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"Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 15:25post reply


I will play against Ignis myself this evening, and see what I think. My neighbor sighed for the package, thank goodness.





Gojira
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"Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 16:40post reply


Geez, you guys are so funny. All BBs - especially ones of an impersonal nature - go through this; it has nothing to do with the "week you're having" or "adrenaline rush". Issues are issues, they get argued and sometimes people can't help but take it personally even if they shouldn't. If it bugs you then don't join in.

As for Ignis, when a boss has a psychic throw that is inescapable, unblockable and can hit you anywhere on the screen without any kind of setup, and he uses it over and over, then I'll care (one boss really had that, BTW, can you guess the game?). Ignis is still far from the cheap bastard he could be.





Freeter
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"Re(3):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 16:56post reply


quote:
As for Ignis, when a boss has a psychic throw that is inescapable, unblockable and can hit you anywhere on the screen without any kind of setup, and he uses it over and over, then I'll care (one boss really had that, BTW, can you guess the game?). Ignis is still far from the cheap bastard he could be.



Hmm...since everyone who always mentions him bitches about him 100% of the time, could it be...



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
Magneto from X-Men: COTA?

End of Spoiler







Gojira
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"Re(4):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 17:13post reply


quote:

Hmm...since everyone who always mentions him bitches about him 100% of the time, could it be...



Nope, more obscure. Think of a crappier game.





Freeter
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"Re(5):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 17:16post reply


quote:
Nope, more obscure. Think of a crappier game.



Too many to list...a clue, maybe?





Gojira
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"Re(6):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 17:37post reply


quote:

Too many to list...a clue, maybe?



Hmm...

By Midway? :P





Freeter
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"Re(7):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 17:39post reply


quote:

Too many to list...a clue, maybe?


Hmm...

By Midway? :P



MK4?





Gojira
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"Re(8):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 17:52post reply


quote:

MK4?



Close... it came out before that though





RugalBernstein
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"Re(9):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 18:01post reply


Gawd, it couldn't be something like " Time Killers " or Primal Rage " , could it? I don't think either of those were made by Midway, but it's been a long time. If you want a cheap boss, Death from Time Killers = really cheap. You can't defeat him. Really.





Gojira
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"Re(10):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Thu 18 Apr 02:49post reply


quote:
Gawd, it couldn't be something like " Time Killers " or Primal Rage " , could it? I don't think either of those were made by Midway, but it's been a long time. If you want a cheap boss, Death from Time Killers = really cheap. You can't defeat him. Really.



Nope. Oh well, if no one wants to take a guess any more, the game was:



Spoiler (Highlight to view) -
War Gods.

End of Spoiler



But enough about that game...





Ferrio
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"Re(2):Re(10):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed pro" , posted Thu 18 Apr 03:07:post reply


quote:

Nope. Oh well, if no one wants to take a guess any more, the game was:

But enough about that game...



War Gods

Hah, I got it before you put the spoiler in too! Dammit maybe I did....crap oh well.





[this message was edited by Ferrio on Thu 18 Apr 03:09]

NARUTO
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"Zero, arghhhhhh" , posted Thu 18 Apr 04:01post reply


the Only thing I hate in kof 2k1 is O.Zero sprite.
It's just Zero's body with rugal head.did eolith have no time for a new one?





Shyeim
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"Re(1):Zero, arghhhhhh" , posted Thu 18 Apr 06:40post reply


Naruto LOOK at message title>>>>

Rushed project!!!!!





RugalBernstein
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"Re(1):Zero, arghhhhhh" , posted Thu 18 Apr 17:05post reply


People say this a lot... To me, his head really doesn't look like Omega Rugal's. There's a vague resemblance, but it's overstated.
Oh, BTW, I finally got the cart...





iggy
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"Re(2):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Fri 19 Apr 02:55post reply


I don't like that game that much (and think it has been realised just after CvS2... that hurts) but I think it's a good thing they did it. First, we need games between 2 dream matchs to discover new characters, kill some others and wait for their return, etc. A dream match every two years would be sooo boring...( and now, it's been 2 years I'm waiting to team up Hinako with Chizuru and Shermie, and I command the next dream match the very first day the command opens. Until then, I have to find another character to have my "Weak-Girls-Nobody-Like-But-Me-Team" complete)


And with the dream match thing, you can have all these hidden stupid alternative endings, like Mary playing baseball with Lucky, the false hero team, etc... That's far better than a stupid storyline where you don't understand really who does what, except that the new character(s) has a deep secret about the end of the world or something like that, that all the characters will always be surprised that actually the tournament is not a normal tournament but something used by a very very bad person to rule the world (come on, it's the 7th time!), that the one who want to destroy or rule the world always needs a fighting tournament to achieve his evil plans, that Kyo and Iori still hate each other and want to kill each other for 54873 years and still didn't managed to do it, that Athena and Benimaru will fight to death until they become the only character to change clothes every year, and that anyway at the end the boss will commit suicide.

And about the boss thing...
Yes, Igniss is nonsense and so on, but I think they put him because Foxy needed a real challenge. I think SHE is overpowered. A LOT.
I think the best boss ever was Jedah. He was quite hard but didn't cheat as Igniss or any KOF boss, and you could take it after and he was strong, but it didn't destroyed the perfect balance of the game. OK, he was one of the best characters of the best game ever, so it's kind of lame to compare his game with any other.
And to finish : do you prefer an unusable boss like this or a monster like Cable or Gouki as normal characters?





Iggy
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