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| Rid Hershel 2347th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
    
|  "Re(9):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project."
, posted Mon 15 Apr 15:01
quote:
I liked 99 the best (haven't played 2000 or 2001, but I bet I'd like 2000 best since Mary is on the FF team). And the artwork in 2001 was not bad, like everyone says. I liked the majority of it, except Bao because they made his hat too big, and the Athena pic could've been better, even with the new outfit...other than that, I think I pretty much liked all the other artwork.
I found the artwork well done, and funny. Most people are just obsessed with commercial manga style, I think that they did a great job in the game.
The game looks rushed, yeah, but I won't think that the backgrounds were rushed, a good artist can create some awesome ones in a couple of nights... they just picked the wrong designers (and obsessed with girls in bikini, it sems). The voices and the retouches to older characters are rushed, that's true, and sad...
Still, other areas aren't rushed, more specifically the new characters, I really liked all of them. But the old ones are outdated, they should readraw them... (Mai is too pixel-heavy).
And about Igniz, they just wanted to make a senseless cheap character.... it didn't worked.
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| Satoshi Miwa 825th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member+
| "Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 15:46
quote:
I found the artwork well done, and funny. Most people are just obsessed with commercial manga style, I think that they did a great job in the game.
For me, I can not, and will not, forgive the artist for making that awful, awful, Yuri Victory screen Art. It's just so bloody ugly that it makes me not want to use Yuri again...
Other than that I'm mixed on the visuals of the game. The new characters sprite look nice for the MVS, and it's nice to be back to a brighter style of backgrounds than the drab KOF 99/2k ones. On the down side the old KOF sprites aren't aging gracefully, especially Iori.
The bakcgrounds are also very, very plain. And repitive, as well. It's nice to have one or two crowd watching scenes in a fight game, but when they're all like that...
Igniz is way too cheap for his own good. Having an Infinite just makes him way to powerfull, and a full super meter all the time is just annoying. Take the Infinite out, and give him a super bar that conforms to the rules of the game, and I'd be happy...
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| Luisinan
13th Post
New Customer
| "Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 16:26
I've only seen the game, so I can' t comment on the gameplay, but yeah, the game does seem rushed. But it also looks like they put a lot of effort into it.
And actually, the only thing that I found rushed was the character select screen. Now that's a very plain character select screen. I liked 99 and 2K's select screen.
I really liked the artwork and the backgrounds. Some of the background characters were not detailed enough, but that doesn't bother me. If you add to much detail, it actually looks bad. I especially liked the Mexico stage! Ha, to have a mariachi is enough for me! And yes, I know previous KOF games had Mexico stages, and I think one of them even had a mariachi- but seeing a mariachi in a modern fighting game is just too cool.
Anyway, I think Eolith did not disgrace the KOF heritage. They know KOF has a ton of fans. But yeah, this does feel a bit rushed. I have a feeling 2K2 is where KOF will be rejuvinated. This was just to tie us over.
Now where is my SF4? Huh Capcom! I thought you said 2D will never die! Hurry up!
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| Suichi
13th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):KOF 2k1>>>> was more a rushed project." , posted Mon 15 Apr 19:48
quote:
This game gets very mixed reactions. Sometimes I hear a lot of good things; other times, a lot of bad... My cart has finally arrived, but it's at the post office, and I haven't had time to pick it up. Regardless, I should be able to play it fairly soon.
All in all I find it to be a very good game. It's not the same KoF that we know, and I think it's a good thing. The system is a bit harder, the characters are starting to take more skill to use <with a few exceptions> and the designs are neat.
Even though it's not my favorite KoF in terms of actual gameplay, it's fast becoming my favorite in terms of style. The moves are great and the hits are satisfying. The art is new and refreshing, and even if I dislike some of it, I'd rather have new change and innovation.
I'm really liking what I see from KoF. It's more of a testing grounds for new things and systems that are then refined in othergames. RotD seems to have displayed this in it's design.
And besides. We couldn't have had a great KoF98 without the broken KoF96. Even if this isn't the game where they got it "right" eventually we'll get to see one that is.
--Suichi
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| trufenix
8th Post
New Customer
| "Re(3):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Tue 16 Apr 06:45
quote:
But when the CPU actually uses the infinite on you, that's REAL carelessness on the developers' part.
I would just like to note that Igniz was DESIGNED to use the infinite. Just as cheaply as O-Z is DESIGNED to use the Long/Ron striker into DM cheesiness, just the same as O-Rugal '98 is designed to Genocide Cutter everything in sight.
This is the way cheap bosses are designed, not a slip, or carelessness, or a flaw. By nature a game's final boss is supposed to present a challenge none of the other enemies can match. Thus, I think it's perfectly fair that Igniz has an infinite, an easy infinite in fact, that one of his AI patterns is designed specifically to use.
Besideswhich, I doubt you're actually paying to play KoF2k1, so whats the big wh00p in hitting the "coin" key 2 more times, and then pressing start?
Break a spine,
-F...
Can you bear to my fatal attack?
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| Freeter 2333th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(4):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Tue 16 Apr 07:44
quote:
I would just like to note that Igniz was DESIGNED to use the infinite. Just as cheaply as O-Z is DESIGNED to use the Long/Ron striker into DM cheesiness, just the same as O-Rugal '98 is designed to Genocide Cutter everything in sight.
This is the way cheap bosses are designed, not a slip, or carelessness, or a flaw. By nature a game's final boss is supposed to present a challenge none of the other enemies can match. Thus, I think it's perfectly fair that Igniz has an infinite, an easy infinite in fact, that one of his AI patterns is designed specifically to use.
"Designed to use an infinite"...uh huh. That REALLY makes sense.
Bosses are supposed to be challenging, of course, but giving them a free infinite in which you have NO hope of recovering from is just WRONG, no matter how you try to justify it.
quote:
Besideswhich, I doubt you're actually paying to play KoF2k1, so whats the big wh00p in hitting the "coin" key 2 more times, and then pressing start?
Who needs the coin key when I have a trainer for infinite health 
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| Time Mage 390th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(1):What I think of KoF 2001..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 02:52
For me, KOF2001 is a good KOF. In fact, in this moment is right behind KOF98 in my likes list, and going up. To judge the game fully, I'll need more time. In a year I think I'll be able to judge it properly. But for now, is nş 2 KOF in my list. The only think I don't like is the art design. The music is only blah, and the backgrounds boring. But gameplay-wise (and that's the more important thing) it's very, very good.
About Ignis, it's good that he's soooo cheap, because it seems that SNK can't program a decent final boss AI. Look at capcom, for example. Gill is cheap as hell, but he has also very good AI. The way he corners you and start a high-low barrage of attacks is very good.
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| trufenix
11th Post
New Customer
|  "Re(6):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project."
, posted Wed 17 Apr 09:32
quote:
"Designed to use an infinite"...uh huh. That REALLY makes sense.
Bosses are supposed to be challenging, of course, but giving them a free infinite in which you have NO hope of recovering from is just WRONG, no matter how you try to justify it.
Not to mention that it's a cheap way to design a "challenging boss"... 
Giving the boss character something like infinite super moves to increase the "challenge" level instead of giving that character somewhat decent A.I. pattern to act upon definitely counts as being cheap (& rushed) in my book.
Oh okay, so giving a boss an infinite is the devil, but giving him unlimited supers, and an unblockable striker isn't? Geez, you're pathetic.
I never said it was supposed to be fair, or justified, I just said that it's the way Eolith made their boss. I don't immediately dismiss things as some campy mistaken glitch just because I can't believe someone did it on purpose.
Eolith specifically gave Igniz's uppercut juggling capability, and then specifically told him that if he catches you point blank with it, to do it over and over again until you die. If they hadn't, and it was just an AI hole, he would do that standing whip uppercut as an anti air from time to time, which he doesn't he does the other anti-air thing.
Like K' says, "if you can't win, buzz off". Going into semantics over which cheap boss move is cheaper than this other cheap move is sad.
Break a spine,
-F...
Can you bear to my fatal attack?
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| Freeter 2351th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(7):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:04
quote:
Oh okay, so giving a boss an infinite is the devil, but giving him unlimited supers, and an unblockable striker isn't? Geez, you're pathetic.
Did I ever state that those things were okay? Nope. I only stated that bosses are supposed to be challenging, not cheesetastic like Rugal 94 or Bison from SFA3.
And the "pathetic" remark was uncalled for. Don't try starting any flame wars up in here.
quote:
I never said it was supposed to be fair, or justified, I just said that it's the way Eolith made their boss. I don't immediately dismiss things as some campy mistaken glitch just because I can't believe someone did it on purpose.
Eolith specifically gave Igniz's uppercut juggling capability, and then specifically told him that if he catches you point blank with it, to do it over and over again until you die. If they hadn't, and it was just an AI hole, he would do that standing whip uppercut as an anti air from time to time, which he doesn't he does the other anti-air thing.
It is an AI hole, because sometimes he'll actually stop the move and let you hit the ground.
quote:
Like K' says, "if you can't win, buzz off". Going into semantics over which cheap boss move is cheaper than this other cheap move is sad.
A boss with a free infinite that can easily kill your chances of winning is even sadder.
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| Professor 1453th Post
MMCafe Owner
     
| "Re(7):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:10
quote:
Oh okay, so giving a boss an infinite is the devil, but giving him unlimited supers, and an unblockable striker isn't? Geez, you're pathetic.
I never said it was supposed to be fair, or justified, I just said that it's the way Eolith made their boss. I don't immediately dismiss things as some campy mistaken glitch just because I can't believe someone did it on purpose.
Eolith specifically gave Igniz's uppercut juggling capability, and then specifically told him that if he catches you point blank with it, to do it over and over again until you die. If they hadn't, and it was just an AI hole, he would do that standing whip uppercut as an anti air from time to time, which he doesn't he does the other anti-air thing.
Like K' says, "if you can't win, buzz off". Going into semantics over which cheap boss move is cheaper than this other cheap move is sad.
Break a spine,
-F...
First off, let's drop this subject before it goes into a flame again. We've seen enough of it last week. I'm scanning through threads a bit more this week just to make sure things are ok.
Btw, this is a warning for everyone-
1- Don't "attack" someone's opinion. Arguing about the legitimacy of their opinion is fine, but there's a right way, and a wrong way of doing it. Let's try not to piss each other out, and go into a war.
2- Don't make personal attacks to people. That's pretty low.
It's pretty weird, everyone seems to have become aggressive since we hit April. Is this some kind of a male hormone outbreak month? Please control yourselves. Have less raw oysters, cut back on the Viagra, do whatever is needed. Thanks.
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| trufenix
12th Post
New Customer
| "Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:21
quote:
Did I ever state that those things were okay? Nope. I only stated that bosses are supposed to be challenging, not cheesetastic like Rugal 94 or Bison from SFA3.
Considering you stated Igniz's infinite was "just WRONG" and everything else you mention is just "cheap", I'd say so.
quote:
And the "pathetic" remark was uncalled for. Don't try starting any flame wars up in here.
You're right, I quote games a bit more than is healthy. My apologies.
quote:
It is an AI hole, because sometimes he'll actually stop the move and let you hit the ground.
Then I tend to believe him letting you go, is the glitch, rather than him not letting you go, or maybe even a legitimate part of his AI to punish you for getting to close to beating him (IE, Pyron in DS 1). Either way, the fact that his whip upper thing juggles indefinately is not a glitch. It's what they wanted it to do.
quote:
A boss with a free infinite that can easily kill your chances of winning is even sadder.
You said it again! C'mon! How is Igniz's infinite uppercut any cheaper / sadder / whatever, than a boss that can kill you in one hit, or has an unblockable DM?
Break a spine,
-F...
Can you bear to my fatal attack?
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| trufenix
13th Post
New Customer
| "Re(8):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:28
quote:
First off, let's drop this subject before it goes into a flame again. We've seen enough of it last week. I'm scanning through threads a bit more this week just to make sure things are ok.
Alright, alright, alright, I'm sorry, it just irks me when I've shelled out cold hard cash for something that I'm almost totally satisfied with, and someone whose playing it on an emulator for nothin disses it.
One more thing and then I'll be good, Freeter, you say more people should be happier with SNK's revival, but how can we be happy if guys like me pay money for brand new neo games, and guys like you play them on emulators for free? You don't even have to answer, just think about it.
Okay, I'm done.
Break a spine,
-F...
Can you bear to my fatal attack?
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| trufenix
14th Post
New Customer
| "Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:37
quote:
Most one-hit kills from bosses can be anticipated and blocked.
And if timed right you can actually hit Long away and block or avoid him before O. Zero does his super.
What makes Igniz's infinite so terrible is that it's devised of just one move being done over and over again until you're dead. With the other cheap bosses you have some form of retaliation. With Igniz's infinite, you can't do squat.
Uhm, if Igniz's infinite was that terrible, no one would ever beat him. But there's plenty of protection, just stay away from him. And even he catches you, he just might drop you after 2 or 3, like you said. Don't tell me that even though it's easy to see coming, you've never been hit by a Long -> Gravity DM, or a Psycho Driver in mid jump. Once you learn what not to do, Igniz never catches you with it. Now that lame unpunishable uppercut of his, that's an SoB right there.
See, I'm being good Professor.
*bats eyes and expects to be patted on head*
Break a spine,
-F...
Can you bear to my fatal attack?
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| Freeter 2356th Post
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
| "Re(2):Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:42
quote:
Uhm, if Igniz's infinite was that terrible, no one would ever beat him.
No, but they'd waste a lot of quarters
quote:
Don't tell me that even though it's easy to see coming, you've never been hit by a Long -> Gravity DM, or a Psycho Driver in mid jump.
I have. Like I said, it can be anticipated. Doesn't mean you're 100% safe though.
quote:
Once you learn what not to do, Igniz never catches you with it. Now that lame unpunishable uppercut of his, that's an SoB right there.
Or his flashy nearly instant kill SDM.
quote:
See, I'm being good Professor.
*bats eyes and expects to be patted on head*
You want some cookies and milk too? 
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| trufenix
15th Post
New Customer
| "Re(10):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Wed 17 Apr 10:48
quote:
It's not like I want to intentionally hold up my middle finger at SNK because I'm playin 2K1 via the ROM, I just wanted to try it and see if it was good enough to purchase when it hits PS2 later.
This is the same thing everyone (well, everyone with a shred of decency and an IQ above that of a raisin) replies. And while I can see the point, the fact is, on a system that's not emulated, or for anything else in a business market (food, clothing, cars, whatever), if you don't have the money, or the availability, you just don't get it, period.
Why is the Neo any different? Should we abuse it, just because it's there, and everyone else is already doing it? There are a lot of other factors in it's demise, but emulation and piracy did nothing to the help the continued survival of the neo, no matter how little or how much you did it, no matter how you justify it.
But alas, this is not a point that goes over well on message boards, especially gaming message boards. I'm done.
Break a spine,
-F...
Can you bear to my fatal attack?
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| Time Mage 395th Post
Silver Customer
| "Re(8):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 11:37
quote:
Anyone remember Zeus in the World Heroes series? One punch, and it was over.
...don't remind me...I HATED the World Heroe's bosses...but not nearly as much as I hate Ignis.
OK, OK, I admit it. I also think that Ignis is too powerful. If he hadn't the infinite he would be a little easier, but the worst part is maybe the infinite super bar. I have quite good succes jumping at him with a early pressed Goro's CD, but when he does the energy columns super, ah, that's an antiair I can't stand.
Anyway, one good advice to fight him is early superjump CD from max distance. He ates the attack about 60-70% of the times, and retaliates only 10-20% of the time. Makes him more beatable.
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| VariantX
74th Post
Occasional Customer
| "Re(9):Actually..." , posted Wed 17 Apr 12:07
quote:
Anyone remember Zeus in the World Heroes series? One punch, and it was over.
...don't remind me...I HATED the World Heroe's bosses...but not nearly as much as I hate Ignis.
OK, OK, I admit it. I also think that Ignis is too powerful. If he hadn't the infinite he would be a little easier, but the worst part is maybe the infinite super bar. I have quite good succes jumping at him with a early pressed Goro's CD, but when he does the energy columns super, ah, that's an antiair I can't stand.
Anyway, one good advice to fight him is early superjump CD from max distance. He ates the attack about 60-70% of the times, and retaliates only 10-20% of the time. Makes him more beatable.
Igniz just has too many invincibility frames.. especially the magnetic shock wave super... u could walk up and smack him silly for about as long as hes invincible with that move.... I dont care abut the SDM cuz it can be stuffed unlike the dm's which are even worse... i dont mind him using it after a juggle.. I do mind the infinite..... and to say justice was more fair is soo not true. Hes equal or worse than igniz.. Its sort of not funny when he uses his instant kill within 4 seconds of the round. And that really was all he needed.... u could dance circles around the gigacheeze laser and juggle him into hell.. and the other laser wasnt much of a problem though there was no way around it but to block and give him more energy. But what justice didnt have was massive invincibility windows that were just cheap plus EASY infinites which are a no no in ANY kof game.
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| iggy
5th Post
New Customer
| "Re(2):KOF 2k1 was a rushed project." , posted Fri 19 Apr 02:55
I don't like that game that much (and think it has been realised just after CvS2... that hurts) but I think it's a good thing they did it. First, we need games between 2 dream matchs to discover new characters, kill some others and wait for their return, etc. A dream match every two years would be sooo boring...( and now, it's been 2 years I'm waiting to team up Hinako with Chizuru and Shermie, and I command the next dream match the very first day the command opens. Until then, I have to find another character to have my "Weak-Girls-Nobody-Like-But-Me-Team" complete)
And with the dream match thing, you can have all these hidden stupid alternative endings, like Mary playing baseball with Lucky, the false hero team, etc... That's far better than a stupid storyline where you don't understand really who does what, except that the new character(s) has a deep secret about the end of the world or something like that, that all the characters will always be surprised that actually the tournament is not a normal tournament but something used by a very very bad person to rule the world (come on, it's the 7th time!), that the one who want to destroy or rule the world always needs a fighting tournament to achieve his evil plans, that Kyo and Iori still hate each other and want to kill each other for 54873 years and still didn't managed to do it, that Athena and Benimaru will fight to death until they become the only character to change clothes every year, and that anyway at the end the boss will commit suicide.
And about the boss thing...
Yes, Igniss is nonsense and so on, but I think they put him because Foxy needed a real challenge. I think SHE is overpowered. A LOT.
I think the best boss ever was Jedah. He was quite hard but didn't cheat as Igniss or any KOF boss, and you could take it after and he was strong, but it didn't destroyed the perfect balance of the game. OK, he was one of the best characters of the best game ever, so it's kind of lame to compare his game with any other.
And to finish : do you prefer an unusable boss like this or a monster like Cable or Gouki as normal characters?
Iggy
http://shoten.free.fr
ôkiku nattara ne :
http://www.enix.co.jp/game/zokusegare/
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"K49?" 
"Re(8):Actually..." 
