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Dragon-warrior
110th Post

Regular Customer

"about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 15:13:

Did you guys though of why all the PS2 RPG's have no world map?( Suikoden3, FFX, Xenosaga, Legaia, shadow hearts) O_o I find it pretty strange!
I think Wild Arms 3 is the onlt one I remember O_- that have a world map, why is it becuase the PS2 is so hard to make such a games? even for Square,Konami and Namco?
so even the best programmars are having one hell of a time with this system , is it that bad?

[this message was edited by Dragon-warrior on Sun 7 Apr 15:46]

Replies:

wingzero

824th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member+

"Re(1):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 15:49

quote:
Did you guys though of why all the PS2 RPG's have no world map?( Suikoden3, FFX, Xenosaga, Legaia, shadow hearts) O_o I find it pretty strange!

that is an interesting fact Dragon-Warrior. never thought about that.

Drip

Holiday

1005th Post

Red Carpet Premium Member

"Re(2):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 15:52

Because PS2 has no more Mode-7 support?*gasps* ^_^;;

Hehe that's an interesting observation
indeed...

Toxico

1660th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(1):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 15:55

so even the best programmars are having one hell of a time with this system , is it that bad?

Well, I can not submit an opinion until I get a grip of some technical info... but I am suspecting that the problem is else where... anyway; let us hope that the time shall fix this.

Dragon-warrior
111th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(3):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 15:56

quote:
Because PS2 has no more Mode-7 support?*gasps* ^_^;;

Hehe that's an interesting observation
indeed...

do that mean there won't be world maps in the games? how come ? Wild Arms3 have one, as I heard?!?!?!?
I hope Start Ocean 3 will have a world map too.

whitesword

599th Post

New Red Carpet Member

"Re(1):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 16:05

quote:
Did you guys though of why all the PS2 RPG's have no world map?( Suikoden3, FFX, Xenosaga, Legaia, shadow hearts) O_o I find it pretty strange!
I think Wild Arms 3 is the onlt one I remember O_- that have a world map, why is it becuase the PS2 is so hard to make such a games? even for Square,Konami and Namco?
so even the best programmars are having one hell of a time with this system , is it that bad?

Well for Xenosaga, it's really because the game's set in outer space, and you do NOT want a "Universe Map"!

As for the others, they probably thought that it was time to stop using World Maps and try to make the world huge, connected and continous, of course, none has truely succeded in that. I expect FFXII to be the first (or FFXI, if it counts!)

Holiday

1008th Post

Red Carpet Premium Member

"Re(4):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 16:06

quote:
do that mean there won't be world maps in the games? how come ? Wild Arms3 have one, as I heard?!?!?!?
I hope Start Ocean 3 will have a world map too.

Hehe, I was only joking ^_^

Mode-7 was used a lot in the SNES RPG games
for scaling/rotation graphic functions and
stuff. Most of the Squaresoft RPG games used
it in their overworld traveling maps.

Toxico

1662th Post

Tailored Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(4):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 16:08

quote:
Because PS2 has no more Mode-7 support?*gasps* ^_^;;

Hehe that's an interesting observation
indeed...

do that mean there won't be world maps in the games? how come ? Wild Arms3 have one, as I heard?!?!?!?
I hope Start Ocean 3 will have a world map too.

They could always do a world map ala Final Fantasy I... NES did not have mode-7 support yet it DID had world map for other games, I believe is the same with the Genesis & others.

Papá Mono has spocken.

ninjabastard

504th Post

New Red Carpet Member

"Nah... ps2 can't stop world maps." , posted Sun 7 Apr 16:24

quote:
Did you guys though of why all the PS2 RPG's have no world map?( Suikoden3, FFX, Xenosaga, Legaia, shadow hearts) O_o I find it pretty strange!
I think Wild Arms 3 is the onlt one I remember O_- that have a world map, why is it becuase the PS2 is so hard to make such a games? even for Square,Konami and Namco?
so even the best programmars are having one hell of a time with this system , is it that bad?

Ok it is possible to do world maps. There is enough ram to do a fucken world map and processing power. But, the quesion is do the companies want to make one? PS2 is very hard to program for. You must program in assembly if you want more power(it's impossible to get all the power with the way the ps2 is designed. I/O maxs at 3gb bandwith a sec while the chip can put out 5gb bandwith. So that's 2 gb you will never see) or you get graphics like GTA 3 because they used middle ware. The ps2 isn't developer friendly at all. Sony gave no documentation whatsoever so most companies had to spend lots of money just figuring out the fucken system. So less game for us. This is why I tend to get pissed at sony all the time. They fuck people who make video games(I'm learning to be one at college). Which is why I like X-box or Gamecube better. Both can be programmed in higher level languges like C, C++, or even Visual C++ on X-box which is even easier and what JSRF used.

Dragon-warrior
113th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(5):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 16:38

quote:
do that mean there won't be world maps in the games? how come ? Wild Arms3 have one, as I heard?!?!?!?
I hope Start Ocean 3 will have a world map too.

Hehe, I was only joking ^_^

Mode-7 was used a lot in the SNES RPG games
for scaling/rotation graphic functions and
stuff. Most of the Squaresoft RPG games used
it in their overworld traveling maps.

(>_<) you were jokiing

I thought it was for real! ( how did I forgot the Mode-7?)
thanks at least you made me laugh LOOOOOOOOL

Tio
51th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(6):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 18:28

Growlancer 3 had world map.
hmm. come to think of it, that's the only PS2 RPG that I've played that had an overview world map you can walk on...

Tio
-----------------------------------
Guild H/H on Asuka server

Chupiler

628th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(7):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 18:56

Maybe it's becuase RPGs have gotten linear these days. Xenosaga you don't really go back and forth between "towns." I don't know to how many RPGs it applies to, because I only really have 3 RPGs for the PS2 (Xenosaga, Atlier Lilie, and WA3). Lilie is non-standard, so it's hard to count that in. I don't think I added much to this topic...oh, well :P

RugalBernstein

1533th Post

Red Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Member

"Re(8):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 19:14

Actually, I think you're right. You can't just wander around in too many RPGs anymore.

Rid Hershel

2283th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(1):Nah... ps2 can't stop world maps." , posted Sun 7 Apr 19:43

quote:
Which is why I like X-box or Gamecube better. Both can be programmed in higher level languges like C, C++, or even Visual C++ on X-box which is even easier and what JSRF used.

But these machines doesn't have any RPG so far...

Tio
56th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(7):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 19:45

There are games with World Maps, but not Field Maps.
both Kingdom Hearts and Grandia Xtreme had world maps, but not a field map where you can wander around.

Tio
-----------------------------------
Guild H/H on Asuka server

Dragon-warrior
120th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(8):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 19:53:

quote:
There are games with World Maps, but not Field Maps.
both Kingdom Hearts and Grandia Xtreme had world maps, but not a field map where you can wander around.

yeah that was my point! haveing a world map but with no freedom at all, all the game I said have this new world map!

Chupiler:
yep, that's my point now the game are going to the simplest level, Grandia started this style ( no world map , no need to go back at all , always go forword, pretty easy fights and cool Graphics)
I am not saying Grandia is bad , no not at all, but seeing everything turning like it makes the games tasteless.

[this message was edited by Dragon-warrior on Sun 7 Apr 19:54]

Kitsune413
12th Post

New Customer

"Re(2):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Sun 7 Apr 21:04

According to Yu Sazuki, when asked how hard it is to program for he said, "Well I don't do the programming myself, but I've heard some things from my team" and when asked what those were he told the people that he'd tell them if they turned off the recorder. Thats not an exact quote. just the gist of it.

deoch
84th Post

Occasional Customer

"Re(3):about the PS2 RPG's!!?!?!" , posted Mon 8 Apr 17:05

I'm sure it's a design decision, not a "it's not possible to do with the hardware" barrier...

Dragon-warrior
125th Post

Regular Customer

"Wolrds Maps!!!" , posted Mon 8 Apr 17:58:

quote:
I'm sure it's a design decision, not a "it's not possible to do with the hardware" barrier...

if it is a design as you said
is it possible that 99% of the programmars don't want to make a huge world map?
BTW what's the best world map in any RPG?

[this message was edited by Dragon-warrior on Mon 8 Apr 18:00]

whitesword

601th Post

Red Carpet Regular Member

"Re(1):Wolrds Maps!!!" , posted Mon 8 Apr 18:48

quote:

BTW what's the best world map in any RPG?

Best? Dunno! My favorite? Chrono Cross!

Pretty, great music, and no spoony random battles to ruin your day!

Dragon-warrior
126th Post

Regular Customer

"Re(2):Wolrds Maps!!!" , posted Mon 8 Apr 18:52

quote:

BTW what's the best world map in any RPG?

Best? Dunno! My favorite? Chrono Cross!

Pretty, great music, and no spoony random battles to ruin your day!

by music yeah I agree CC is the best
but by over all I have to say FFIX is the most detailed richest and coolest World map I saw.

Rid Hershel

2289th Post

Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master

"Re(3):Wolrds Maps!!!" , posted Mon 8 Apr 18:57

Legend of Mana. Crappy looking but customizable. And the Tales of Phantasia (Playstation) map is good too, clear looking and with enough details.

ONSLAUGHT

1758th Post

Silver Carpet V.I.P- Platinum Executive

"Re(4):Wolrds Maps!!!" , posted Mon 8 Apr 19:34

quote:
Legend of Mana. Crappy looking but customizable. And the Tales of Phantasia (Playstation) map is good too, clear looking and with enough details.

To me, the best world map is the one from FF VI, you gotta love that music!
Plus, after some time, the map changes to an entirely new map (well, kind of)

Maverick
2th Post

New Customer

"World Maps" , posted Wed 10 Apr 19:35

Most all world maps are usually disproportional. It looks like the main characters have become Godzilla-sized creatures and are attacking the towns they're merely trying to sleep in! (Magic wand, make my monster grow!)
But anyway, I think with the sprite/chibi-sized characters becoming a thing of the past (boo), game developers might want a proportional map screen. When you think about it, that would be quite hard to navigate. I think a traditional world map would have taken you out of FFX a bit.

Just my two cents. I prefer good ol' world maps, myself.

Kick me I'm new.

Gojira

331th Post

Bronze Customer

"Re(1):World Maps" , posted Wed 10 Apr 20:35

I like overworld maps. Even if the characters do look too big and travel unrealistically fast, it gives a better connective feel to the world. FFX doesn't feel connected to me at all...

As for reasons, overworld maps aren't terribly complicated to create or program (yes even on a PS2, duh), so that's not an issue. A big one can take up quite a lot of ROM though. Maybe there wasn't enough space on the DVD...