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| talbaineric 2871th Post
 
Platinum Carpet V.I.P- Board Master
    
    
    
    
     
|  "Stereotypes"
, posted Mon 25 Mar 07:13
Feel like I needed to get this out!
Stereotypes. I don't really like them,seeing as how they're so "judgemental" of different cultures.
There was someone on the news a while back who cut us Hispanics(which is what I am) down,saying some rude remark about how we haven't changed,and the only employment we would ever find in our lives is fast food. THAT GOT ME PISSED! I don't remember who,but he was some yankee puss who wasn't even a native of my state(New Mexico). It's seemed more like a stereotype than prejudice,though.
I dunno if any stereotypes piss you guys off,too. But they do me,even in video games. Like,why do they usually make Chinese fighters(NOT ALL THE TIME OR IN ALL CASES)the tradional monk(Lee Recca,Master Huang) or the really ugly old man. They could add some originality to them. There is more to Chinese culture,SOOOOO much more diversity than just drunken masters or Bruce Lee clones. Cranberry Jam and Crane are perfect examples of originality and diversity. 
And of course,naturally,there is the British stereotype. Classy gents or punks or secret agent women in thongs(NOW THAT ONE I DON'T MIND AT ALL  Cammy,ahem!) There is also,like so many cultures around the world,SOOO much more to the British culture than snobby people or the now LONG-DEAD punk era. That's why I'm glad characters like Steve Fox,Christie,Marion(from the Gunbird series)Tiger(I think he's British,from Martial Masters)Cammy and Talbain have since long tried to shut down the other crude stereotypes(Dudley,Axl Low,Jack from World Hereos). C'mon you designers,start thinking original and diversity.
I don't know which other culture is stereotyped weakly,but feel free to add. I know they classify South American fighters as being from the jungle or whatever. (Doesn't anyone agree they should start having characters from Argentina,Chile,Peru?)
Once again,I don't know if any of my rant would make sense to you guys,but I feel I REALLY needed to get this out.
I feel much better! 
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Replies:
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| Rugalbernstein 1430th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
|  "Re(6):Stereotypes"
, posted Mon 25 Mar 11:08:
You answer your own statement by saying " why would a yogi have a necklace of skulls " ? Dhalsim isn't a stereotype at all, he's just strange.
People throw the phrase " stereotype " around too much, and whether you like it or not, all people stereotype others, to a degree. I'm annoyed how people never bring up American games in these conversations. Many of these games are rife with stereotypes.. look at Mortal Kombat, or the ever popular " Grand Theft Auto 3 " ... the Italians walk around saying things like " Mozzarella ", the gay people sing " In the Navy " , or something, and don't even get me started on the Indian cab drivers!!!! >:(
Also, there IS such a thing as a positive stereotype. One might say Ky Kiske is one.. He's hardly the beret wearing, onion selling pencil-moustached French you normally see when people are stereotyping the French, and he seems to be a good sort of chap. Of course, he probably DOES fit the Japanese stereotype of the French person; they have very different images of cultures than your country might have. Terry is actually a rather stereotypical American, as far as Japanese sources go.
Oh, and for the record, I don't consider Dudley a stereotype in any sense.
And as for the U.S.A. sports team, you have American television to thank for them.
Ha ha ha, another update.. it seems to me people like Ryu are pretty stereotypical " karate " types, but nobody complains. It's an injustice and bias on your part! >:)
Update: noticed a stupid grammatical error, and I felt I had to fix it. Also added two sentences! ^_^
[this message was edited by Rugalbernstein on Mon 25 Mar 13:04] |
| Hungrywolf 485th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(7):Stereotypes" , posted Mon 25 Mar 12:08
quote:
You answer your own statement by saying " why would a yogi have a necklace of skulls " ? Dhalsim isn't a stereotype at all, he's just strange.
People through the phrase " stereotype " around too much, and whether you like it or not, all people stereotype others, to a degree. And I'm annoyed how people never bring up American games in these conversations. Many of these games are rife with stereotypes.. look at Mortal Kombat, or the ever popular " Grand Theft Auto 3 " ... the Italians walk around saying things like " Mozzarella ", the gay people sing " In the Navy " , or something, and don't even get me started on the Indian cab drivers!!!! >:(
Also, there IS such a thing as a positive stereotype. One might say Ky Kiske is one..
Whether you like it or not, some Japanese ideas of " stereotypes " might be different than American ones. Terry is actually a rather stereotypical American, as far as Japanese sources go.
Oh, and for the record, I don't consider Dudley a stereotype in any sense.
And as for the U.S.A. sports team, you have your own American television to thank for them.
Ha ha ha, another update.. it seems to me people like Ryu are pretty stereotypical " karate " types, but nobody complains. It's an injustice and bias on your part! >:)
Great point, Rugal! Terry is a stereotypical American hero, but I still love him. With his Chuck Taylor's and his all star jacket. he he. He's the best. I always found it odd how he, as an american, was the hero of a fighting game. Usually it seems it's a Japanese hero. That doesn't bother me, but it usually is a Japanese main hero, I think. Terry is unique. :) Yeah, I don't think Dudley is a stereotype, or Dhalsim (I mean, seriously, think of what Dhalsim would be if he were a stereotupe). And the USA team from KoF was a big American stereotype, however, there are people in this world like that so it doesn't bother me that they were in KoF.
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| Iron D 1449th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(8):Stereotypes" , posted Mon 25 Mar 15:05
Some real good points brought up by Hungrywolf and Rugalbernstein. Dhalsim is in no way a stereotypical Indian or yoga user. You want a stereotypical Indian? See Apu of The Simpsons fame. That's a stereotypical Indian. And I don't see how Chun-li, Blanka (I mean come on, BLANKA), or Ryu are stereotypes. Anyways, Dudley is both a stereotype and not a stereotype. He's a stereotypical Englishman (rich, drinking tea, the way he dresses) but not a stereotypical black person.
Stereotypes are sometimes good, and not always bad. At times, being stereotypical can make a character more interesting, if done right.
I think that Lucky Glauber is the worst of them all though. Being black, I'm personally offended by this character. He wears baggy clothes, a backwards cap, and for crying out loud he throws a BASKETBALL for a projectile! I mean some people throw fireballs, some throw rocks, some throw their own weapons, but Lucky throws a friggin' BASKETBALL! Yes, I realize he's from an old basketball game but geez, this is just bad.
Also, Balrog's pretty bad as well. I hate, hate, HATE when us black people are drawn as having huge, swollen, pink lips....okay, I'll stop. I'm starting to rant....
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| Satoshi Miwa 680th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
| "Re(2):Stereotypes" , posted Mon 25 Mar 15:50
Actually Stereotyping to a certain degree is a succesful part of character design and devlopment. Look at games like Project Justice, Vampire, and Samurai Showdown which take and use the stereotypes for their designs (High school anime/manga for PJ, Movie monsters for Vampire, and Anicent Japanese history for Showdown). By starting out with the stereotype, and then tweaking them the companies were able to make strong characters that people could easily identify with.
As for the SF2 characters, most of were inspired by stereotypes for movies, books, and anime. And yet they became so much because of the game and how they were handled. And some even broke stereotypes, as Chun Li became the first female of fighting games (and was a very comptent main character for most of the SF series...)
About the only problem I have with stereotypical designs is when they bridge over into racists beliefs and what not, and that rarely happens (Except for the orginal SNK sports team, though Heavy D! got cool in 98).
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| Tashoku Kisune 673th Post
Red Carpet Regular Member
|  "Re(1):Stereotypes"
, posted Mon 25 Mar 15:53
quote:
Stereotypes. I don't really like them,seeing as how they're so "judgemental" of different cultures.
There was someone on the news a while back who cut us Hispanics(which is what I am) down,saying some rude remark about how we haven't changed,and the only employment we would ever find in our lives is fast food. THAT GOT ME PISSED! I don't remember who,but he was some yankee puss who wasn't even a native of my state(New Mexico). It's seemed more like a stereotype than prejudice,though.
I dunno if any stereotypes piss you guys off,too. But they do me,even in video games. Like,why do they usually make Chinese fighters(NOT ALL THE TIME OR IN ALL CASES)the tradional monk(Lee Recca,Master Huang) or the really ugly old man. They could add some originality to them. There is more to Chinese culture,SOOOOO much more diversity than just drunken masters or Bruce Lee clones. Cranberry Jam and Crane are perfect examples of originality and diversity.
And of course,naturally,there is the British stereotype. Classy gents or punks or secret agent women in thongs(NOW THAT ONE I DON'T MIND AT ALL Cammy,ahem!) There is also,like so many cultures around the world,SOOO much more to the British culture than snobby people or the now LONG-DEAD punk era. That's why I'm glad characters like Steve Fox,Christie,Marion(from the Gunbird series)Tiger(I think he's British,from Martial Masters)Cammy and Talbain have since long tried to shut down the other crude stereotypes(Dudley,Axl Low,Jack from World Hereos). C'mon you designers,start thinking original and diversity.
I don't know which other culture is stereotyped weakly,but feel free to add. I know they classify South American fighters as being from the jungle or whatever. (Doesn't anyone agree they should start having characters from Argentina,Chile,Peru?)
Once again,I don't know if any of my rant would make sense to you guys,but I feel I REALLY needed to get this out.
I feel much better!
I'm with you all the way there, Tailbain. I've got to admit I hate stereotypes VERY much. One of the stereotypes -I- hate are those stereotypes of women. As all you guys out there know.. I'm one strange wench. o_O I follow very few of the "typical female" rules. (IE. Who ELSE knows a semi-goth techno-geek gamer chick anime artist?)
I'm the typical white girl raised while being moved all over the country... meaning I'm not very average at all.
I dislike putting people in catagories which is why I absolutely refuse to judge an entire race or type of person on just the people that I know here.
To be honest the only hispanics I know here I have never met. Mostly because the only ones I've really seen are these creepy little guys who stalk me when I go to stores.. and I'll be damned. It's the SAME group every time! (I know because their lead guy is always wearing the same shirt.)
However... I know for a FACT that there are some GREAT hispanics out there. For example.. My bestest buddies Tal and Rid! <Hugs!> Some GREAT people! And Ally, who's Mexican. She's great too!
I live in the south east about.. might as well explain that away. Around in this area they are REAL prejudice against blacks. I have absolutely no prejudices against them. Actually.. some of the nicest people here are black and I love them to death! ^_^
And so yes.. stereotypes bother the HELL out of me. My father has always tried to raise me to be a hateful person. He hates everyone who isn't the poor white male... And he'd hate poor people too.. but we're part OF that class (or rather seriously bordering). And he's tried his best to raise me as a "southern belle" or basically.. I'm supposed to hate all hispanics for "invading the US" and all blacks for "being out of place". And I STRONGLY disagree. When he starts talking like that.. it's all I can do not to slap his head right off his scrawny shoulders. ¬_¬ It pisses the hells out of me.... VERY MUCH SO! It really really bothers me. One of my pet peeves... NEVER pick on a TYPE of people. Pick on the individual. Those who pick on entire races of types of people are just too afraid to confront the ones they hate personally. ¬_¬
Though... it's nice to hear that you're in New Mexico, Tal. Right next to my birth state of Arizona. (Is actually a western chickadee.)
And... as a matter of fact. My sister and I were having this major discussion. The cities that are always targeted as important are New York, Tokyo, London... you know. But why the hell doesn't anyone every try to destroy Buenas Aries? (In movies... LOL.. not real life. That'd be horrible.) But it was a conversation we were having. It sort of bothers me that people don't think that anything in the South American world makes a difference. Are those cities not as interesting to destroy as San Fransico? o_O I think not.
Anyway.. you do have an excellent point there, Tal, and I'm behind ya on that one.
And as for the Chinese thing... I tend to at least bring new ideas. I play a werefox woman who's hispanic. Being it's a fantasy world I can't say she's from Mexico or Argentina perse... but I made her hispanic nontheless. (Her name's Moss btw and she's a great character. I'm betting you guys at the boards would love her to DEATH! She's a sexy fox woman, a wanderer dressed in men's clothing. She's cool and collected.. but not evil or anything. ^_~)
If I was going to make a game... I'd certainly mixe things up. A Chinese priestess would be cute to play. Or a pretty Chinese empress-dressed woman. That'd make for an interesting sprite, no?
I have characters from all sorts of settings, though. And I'm proud to say that I try to mix up the stereotypes as much as possible and stirr up confusion. (I try to represent EVERYONE in a fair light... everyone.)
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| Hungrywolf 486th Post
Gold Customer
| "Re(9):Stereotypes" , posted Mon 25 Mar 17:39
quote:
Some real good points brought up by Hungrywolf and Rugalbernstein. Dhalsim is in no way a stereotypical Indian or yoga user. You want a stereotypical Indian? See Apu of The Simpsons fame. That's a stereotypical Indian. And I don't see how Chun-li, Blanka (I mean come on, BLANKA), or Ryu are stereotypes. Anyways, Dudley is both a stereotype and not a stereotype. He's a stereotypical Englishman (rich, drinking tea, the way he dresses) but not a stereotypical black person.
Stereotypes are sometimes good, and not always bad. At times, being stereotypical can make a character more interesting, if done right.
I think that Lucky Glauber is the worst of them all though. Being black, I'm personally offended by this character. He wears baggy clothes, a backwards cap, and for crying out loud he throws a BASKETBALL for a projectile! I mean some people throw fireballs, some throw rocks, some throw their own weapons, but Lucky throws a friggin' BASKETBALL! Yes, I realize he's from an old basketball game but geez, this is just bad.
Also, Balrog's pretty bad as well. I hate, hate, HATE when us black people are drawn as having huge, swollen, pink lips....okay, I'll stop. I'm starting to rant....
I think Balrog/M. Bison's look has more to do with the fact that it's a play on Mike Tyson.
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| Mosquiton 272th Post
Copper Customer
| "Vocabulary lesson" , posted Mon 25 Mar 17:50
I've seen similar threads fairly often on the board, and while there's always intelligent discussion, it seems that the word "sterotype" sometimes gets used in the wrong circumstances.
I had originally gone on a long winded thesis on the subject, but I think it would be better if I just offered up these definitions and a few ideas.
Main Entry: (2)stereotype
Function: noun
2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or a careless/unfair judgement
-sterotypes are almost always negative in connotation not because of what they assert, but because of how they're made (which would be ignorantly).
-unless it makes generalizations about a group, it's not a sterotype.
-A character can have sterotypical features, but isn't neccesarily a sterotype itself.
-If a stereotypical feature is not a defining aspect of the character, it shouldn't be offensive.
For example, should a French character NEVER LIKE WINE OR CHEESE because that's part of an stereotype for Frenchmen? Should black characters NEVER LIKE RAP or PLAY BASKETBALL?
That would be ridiculous. I once knew a French guy on exchange who liked wine. I personally know black people who do both, and they don't offend themselves by doing so.
It's only when something is exaggerated and becomes the center of a character's identity that they become a walking sterotype.
Zangief does do that traditional russian dance at the end of SFII, but he doesn't do it at the end of every round while swilling vodka and screaming "Da comrade!". :P
Here's a word that might be relevant here:
Main Entry: ar·che·type
1 : the original pattern or model of which all things of the same type are representations or copies : PROTOTYPE; also : a perfect example
This is not based on an oversimplified opinion made in poor judgement (although it can often contribute to an unoriginal character design). This is more like a known type of character. I'd put the orignal Street Fighter cast in this category, and the Darkstalkers cast is clearly based on established archetypes.
Everything from amnesiac secret agent to beast-like jungle man is an archetype. Beautiful woman warrior, focused loner, and street fighting high school students are too. Almost any character design can be traced way, way back on the tree of originality, and it's almost impossible to pinpoint the exact origins of anything.
And about Axl Low, I think sure he has more to do with Axl Rose than he does with Britain...
Wow, I just keep rambling. Anyway, when complaining about lack of originality archetype is probably the more relevant term, when talking about racial or national generalizations stereotype is the word.
That's it, gotta check laundry.
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| Iron D 1456th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(1):Vocabulary lesson" , posted Tue 26 Mar 13:39
quote:
For example, should a French character NEVER LIKE WINE OR CHEESE because that's part of an stereotype for Frenchmen? Should black characters NEVER LIKE RAP or PLAY BASKETBALL?
Very well said, Mosquiton. However, my problem with Lucky Glauber is that he's just ridiculous. Sure, many blacks do like basketball, but it doesn't make a lick of sense that a black person would go to a fight using basketballs as a weapon. I know that there have been some ridiculous weapons in fighting games, but that's just bad. Imagine, if Zangief threw bottles of vodka at his opponent, or if Eagle tossed hot tea on his opponent.
Oh, and to those that were talking about Capoeira, it originated in Brazil, not Jamaica.
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| Iron D 1460th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Re(3):Vocabulary lesson" , posted Tue 26 Mar 14:18
quote:
Hmm.. if Lucky Glauber offends you, you can only really blame American television. The Japanese idea of black people is virtually formed entirely from American T.V. shows, so in a manner, you're blaming the wrong people.
Well, I said that I was offended by Lucky Glauber, but I never said anything about laying the blame on anybody. You are right though, and believe me I have been quite vocal on my view of how blacks are portrayed on American television. Shows like Moesha, Martin, Sisters, and other crap like that just makes me sick, and BET, a cable network that is supposedly for blacks, only reinforces the stereotypes that are placed on us. So yeah, we blacks get a bad rap form
American television.
However, I have been told that the Japanese (not Japanese Americans, mind you) are generally sort of...bigotted when it comes to their view of blacks. Please, correct if I'm wrong, and I hope I'm not offending anyone here...
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| Iron D 1464th Post
Red Carpet Executive Member
| "Talk shows? Ack!" , posted Tue 26 Mar 14:55
quote:
I'm with you ALL THE WAY on that Iron D. I used to watch BET for it's videos,but then it got too stupid for me. Haven't watched the channel for like two years,not even for the good videos.  It is sad.
And these stupid talk shows like Jerry Springer and Jenny Jones,enforce that shit. Doesn't anyone have any sense of dignity and virtue anymore?
Oh,and Iron D,I also never liked Moesha or any of the shows either,except for Family Matters back in the day.
Oh, how could I forget our endless supply of stereotype enforcing talk shows! Those shows are utter garbage, pure and simple. Family Matters wasn't very stereotypicaly, but it was just plain stupid in its own way if you ask me.
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| Tio
30th Post
Rare Customer
| "my two cents." , posted Wed 27 Mar 23:43
Quite a while ago, a Japanese leader expressed a bigotry towards blacks.
Ever since then, there have been stereotypes of "japanese hate blacks" due to this.
If anything, I sense more bitterness towards whites from fellow Japanese than blacks.
To a lot of idiots, any action taken by America, or even an american company, is viewed as result of white people.
For example, when Disney shamed themselves with multiple anime-ripoffs (you know exactly what I'm talking about) quite a few people expressed anger towards "white america". Same with the movie Pearl Harbor, and lately the X-box scratch problems.
I wouldn't say these expressions are even remotely from the majority, but as you know, negative minority voices are more vocal than positive ones. (which, in any culture, era, or state, does nothing but encourage stereotyping and bitterness)
One of my best friend came along with me to Japan last Spring. Neither he or I felt any enimity towards him, or noticed any weird starings. We plan to visit Japan this summer again.
Tio
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Guild H/H on Asuka server
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